This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3B0DE.9E9B44F0
charset="iso-8859-1"
Re: KyoreiThank you very much, Ronnie, I appreciate this greatly!=20
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ronnie Nyogetsu Seldin=20
To: Bruce Jones=20
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kyorei
Hi Gene,
To put it simply, these are different pieces. The SAN KOTEN of the =
Meian (or MYOAN) tradition, or three classical (oldest pieces) are KOKU, =
MUKAIJI, and REIBO. As you have mentioned, "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No =
Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" are the KOTEN of the Kinko-Ryu. While sharing =
a cultural History, musically and compositionally the Kinko-Ryu pieces =
are quite different from the Fudaiji (Meian) pieces.
The Fudaiji line pieces (which is the Jin Nyodo notation that I use =
as well) , can be called "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" or "Fudai-ji: KYOREI", or =
just plain Kyorei. Along with Mukaji and Koku (also Fudaiji line), these =
pieces are not only much older than the previously listed Kinko-Ryu =
pieces, but they are VERY different in every way.
The Kinko-Ryu piece is usually referred to as Shin Kyorei (which =
means "new" Kyorei). The other two KOTEN pieces having the added "Reibo" =
(memory of the bell) is a reference , and in honor of- the bell that =
Fuke-Zenji would play.
Kyotaku has been called the REAL oldest Honkyoku. Since it was lost =
over the ages, the attempt to recreate it is KYOREI (or false bell, or =
empty bell).
The above is not the last word on these matters, only what my =
teacher Kurahashi Yodo taught me.
The two people who have the best Academic understanding of all of =
these things (in my opinion) are Riley Lee and Ralph Samuelson. But I =
hope that I have helped a bit !
Take Care,
Ronnie
Will some kind expert please set me straight here:
=20
I am told "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" are =
referred to as the three pieces of Bekkaku, or The Traditional Three, =
and are the most important of the Kinko Ryu Honkyoku.=20
=20
And I have read "Shin No Kyorei" is a Koten piece from the Kinko Ryu =
school, also apparently sometimes known as "Kyotaku", from a story of =
that same name. And I also see it referred to as "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" and =
"Fudai-ji: KYOREI".
The International Shakuhachi Society, I note, refers to the piece as =
"Shin Kyorei", without the Japanese connecting word "no".
=20
And, finally, I am aware the Jin Nyodo #5 CD contains this masterful =
piece, and I believe I have a copy of Jin Nyodo's notation here before =
me now.
=20
But here's my question: Every time I refer to the piece as "Shin No =
Kyorei" I am abruptly corrected - without explanation - to "Kyorei."
=20
If what Jin Nyodo has recorded in his CD #5 is NOT "Shin No Kyorei", =
what happened to that piece? Where and when did it disappear? What is =
the musical difference between "Shin No Kyorei" and "Kyorei"? Why is it =
incorrect for me to refer to the piece as "Shin No Kyorei?"
=20
Thank you!
=20
Gene
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3B0DE.9E9B44F0
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Kyorei</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Thank you very much, Ronnie, I appreciate this greatly! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gene</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DNyogetsu@nyc.rr.com =
href=3D"mailto:Nyogetsu@nyc.rr.com">Ronnie Nyogetsu=20
Seldin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3DShakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu=20
href=3D"mailto:Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu">Bruce Jones</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 22, =
2003 9:41=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Kyorei</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DHelvetica><BR>Hi Gene,<BR><BR>To put it =
simply, these=20
are different pieces. The SAN KOTEN of the Meian (or MYOAN) =
tradition,=20
or three classical (oldest pieces) are KOKU, MUKAIJI, and REIBO. As =
you have=20
mentioned, "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" =
are the=20
KOTEN of the Kinko-Ryu. While sharing a cultural History, musically =
and=20
compositionally the Kinko-Ryu pieces are quite different from the =
Fudaiji=20
(Meian) pieces.<BR><BR>The Fudaiji line pieces (which is the Jin =
Nyodo=20
notation that I use as well) , can be called "Kyorei =
(Fudaiji)" or=20
"Fudai-ji: KYOREI", or just plain Kyorei. Along with Mukaji and Koku =
(also=20
Fudaiji line), these pieces are not only much older than the =
previously=20
listed Kinko-Ryu pieces, but they are VERY different in every=20
way.<BR><BR>The Kinko-Ryu piece is usually referred to as Shin =
Kyorei (which=20
means =93new=94 Kyorei). The other two KOTEN pieces having the added =
=93Reibo=94=20
(memory of the bell) is a reference , and in honor of- the =
bell that=20
Fuke-Zenji would play.<BR><BR>Kyotaku has been called the REAL =
oldest=20
Honkyoku. Since it was lost over the ages, the attempt to recreate =
it is=20
KYOREI (or false bell, or empty bell).<BR><BR>The above is not the =
last word=20
on these matters, only what my teacher Kurahashi Yodo taught =
me.<BR><BR>The=20
two people who have the best Academic understanding of all of these =
things=20
(in my opinion) are Riley Lee and Ralph Samuelson. But I hope that I =
have=20
helped a bit !<BR><BR>Take Care,<BR>Ronnie<BR><BR>Will some kind =
expert=20
<I>please</I> set me straight here:<BR> <BR>I am told "Mukaiji =
Reibo,"=20
"Shin No Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" are referred to as the three =
pieces of=20
Bekkaku, or The Traditional Three, and are the most important of the =
Kinko=20
Ryu Honkyoku. <BR> <BR>And I have read "Shin No Kyorei" is a =
Koten=20
piece from the Kinko Ryu school, also apparently sometimes known as=20
"Kyotaku", from a story of that same name. And I also see it =
referred=20
to as "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" and "Fudai-ji: KYOREI".<BR>The =
International=20
Shakuhachi Society, I note, refers to the piece as "Shin Kyorei", =
without=20
the Japanese connecting word "no".<BR> <BR>And, finally, I am =
aware the=20
Jin Nyodo #5 CD contains this masterful piece, and I believe I have =
a copy=20
of Jin Nyodo's notation here before me now.<BR> <BR>But here's =
my=20
question: Every time I refer to the piece as "Shin No Kyorei" =
I am=20
abruptly corrected - without explanation - to =
"Kyorei."<BR> <BR>If what=20
Jin Nyodo has recorded in his CD #5 is NOT "Shin No Kyorei", what =
happened=20
to that piece? Where and when did it disappear? What is =
the=20
musical difference between "Shin No Kyorei" and "Kyorei"? Why =
is it=20
incorrect for me to refer to the piece as "Shin No=20
Kyorei?"<BR> <BR>Thank=20
you!<BR> <BR>Gene<BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT=20
face=3DHelvetica><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3B0DE.9E9B44F0--
_____________________________________________
List subscription information is at:
http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Jan 06 2004 - 14:09:36 PST