Hi Joel,
Your comments are extremely thoughtful and far beyond the depth of my
original probe. As you rightly point out (and as Bruce mentioned) a one
to one correspondence between western and Kinko notation is out of the
question. I agree that any notation system, but maybe Kinko more so than
others, being rooted in an oral tradition, can only provide a set of
rough indications; this is certainly the case for western notation. The
level at which I was thinking of a notation translation system was
extremely rudimentary and not meant to try and extend the utility of any
of the notation systems (in fact as I mentioned to Bruce, this
translation system, like any other, would limit the range of
expression). E.g. I've seen western notation for folk songs with the
Kinko fingering and duration symbols written above the western notes. So
there could be a fairly mechanical translation between fingerings and
duration symbols (e.g. one could probably turn MIDI specifications into
either western or Kinko notation pretty easily - in fact some subset of
MIDI might be a useful lowest common demoninator as an internal
representation for such a translator). This would only be able to
provide a rudimentary representation of western->Kinko and would only be
useful to people who didn't have time to learn western notation.
Translating a Bach fugue into abbreviated Kinko notation certainly
wouldn't help to convey any of the subtelty of the music but it might be
mildly helpful for someone familiar with Kinko notation and a deep love
and understanding of Bach.
> This discussion about notation is close to my heart. And important to
> those composing for the instrument.
>
> I think Kinko notation is the best we have so far, but it's incomplete
> even for it's own repetoire, is it not? In the following sense:
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, I do not wish to pretend to be any
> kind of authority, I'm not. But are there not substantive, sometimes
> important aspects of most of the honkyoku performance practice that
> are not encapsulated in the notation? And these things sometimes
> change from teacher to teacher or school to school to various degrees,
> but it is not as if these things were completely optional, or
> completely open for "interpretation" or improvisation.
> So, if I'm right, the notation does not encapsulate, or represent, the
> music in any one to one way.
> Rather, the notation is a rough guide to how to perform the piece,
> with the details, the sense of ma particular to that piece, etc. being
> dealt with by the classical oral tradition method of direct transmission.
>
> Kinko notation as it functions is a very interesting animal in the
> musical notation world. It is both a proscriptive and a descriptive
> notation to some degree. Mostly proscriptive, since most of the
> notation is fingering symbols, but there are the graphic notation
> aspects (movement of line from left to right signifying low to high
> that give you some pretty decent ability to describe subtle pitch
> movements, and that ability is better than that given by adapting
> western notation by using distance left to right for duration and
> extending a pitch line following the notehead and moving it up and
> down for pitch....The grid provided by the treble staff isn't fine
> enough, alas. It doesn't work, trying to show the shape of a slide or
> meri melody between eflat and d on the treble staff...but Kinko
> notation does this very nicely...
>
> So, I guess that's the answer to one question...
> There is no one to one correspondence possible between Kinko and
> western notation. Further, Kinko remains more flexible than even
> modified western notation for expressing many contemporary musical
> ideas (for the shakuhachi). On the other hand, sometimes western
> notation is much better. If it's metered rhythm, complex polyrhythms,
> etc. that you need, Kinko notation fails.
>
> I've been able to adapt, or expand Kinko notation a little bit to
> incorporate some of the multiphonic and other extended technique
> things I do in my improvised music practice, because most of my music
> uses free time, it's unmetered, variable. I have to write some
> english on the side of the notation sometimes and I've created some
> special symbols but it's readable.
>
> Ned Rothenberg's pieces are in Kinko notation with additional
> "performance notes". Which seems very much in the tradition, except
> that in the case of the traditional pieces there are no performance
> notes, see your local sensei, if there is one...and if not, find
> recordings, preferably with matching scores. Yes? No?
>
> Some of the Japanese composers use modified western notation, but if
> they want to incorporate many of the subtleties (like alternative
> fingerings) that are standard shakuhachi practice they have to use
> fingering charts (awkward but effective), or print the standard
> shakuhachi notation for special fingerings above the staff... and/or
> create a glossary of graphical markings for the various types of
> fluttertongue, windsounds, etc...so.this is..not standard western
> notation at all...and not a satisfying solution either, if the
> composer wants to indicate subtle pitch motion...
>
> Very interesting problem. It would be nice if there was actually a
> good solution.
> But this is a fundamental problem with musical notation systems. As
> music starts to take advantage of extended technique (and honkyoku
> music certainly does) and as composers start to specify more and more
> detail, it starts becoming very difficult to create a good notation
> system that actually encapsulates what's needed to know how to play a
> piece....
> If a notation system becomes too cluttered and contains too much
> information it begins to loose utility for any kind of sight reading...
> On the other hand, if it doesn't encapsulate enough about the piece it
> doesn't serve the primary purpose of notation...
>
> Any comments, ideas?
>
-- Karl Young University of California, SF Phone: (415) 221-4810 x3114 lab VA Medical Center, MRS Unit (114M) (415) 750-9463 home 4150 Clement Street FAX: (415) 668-2864 San Francisco, CA 94121 Email: kyoung@itsa.ucsf.edu_____________________________________________
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