--- stan <b@didgethings.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Justin
>
> "Are we practising for ourselves? Really, "I" cannot
> be
> enlightened anyway, right? You see?"
>
> If "I" cannot be enlightened then how can a vow or
> desire that "I" make help us to enlightenment?
I'm very sorry. My mails may just be serving to
confuse. My understanding is extremely limited, and so
please forgive me for my lack of clarity and mistakes.
I will try to explain how the issue seems to me.
The question is fair. You see, this is a rather
special vow. And anyway, vow seems so formal, to me at
least. I like more a heartfelt thing, kind of a wish.
From deep down. Nevermind the words or the
formalities, though if they help then okay.
There is no I, they say. But I experience an I. So
what's that? I guess that I do not realize that the I
is not quite like it seems. I take myself to be kind
of solid. I hold on tight, to this thing I call self.
Maybe that's the problem. And then I want this, I
don't want that. Then there is you out there, and so
on. Such a big difference actually, between you and
me. Right? A world apart.
Then when the mind turns, when the focus shifts. When
my concern comes to be for YOU. When the heart opens.
When other becomes more important than self. Okay
there is a wish for helping all sentient beings, but
this is a self-LESS wish. We are turning the focus.
Nevermind logic, of is there an I or not - just ...
this way makes the boundaries weeken. This way is a
way of compassion, right? Compassion, opens the heart.
We can feel the suffering of others. This is already a
start to the transcendance of self-other. I feel your
pain. We are not so seperate there.
> My point about putting the cart before the horse, is
> simply to point to the fact that an unenlightened
> person cannot possibly understand what they will do
> once enlightenment is acheived,
There are stories of, just as an example, Christian
missionaries going in to tribal villages, making them
Christains, changing their lives and cultures and so
on. Some have said that was a big disaster - a
terrible thing to do. I may agree. Now, I have nothing
against Christains or the teachings of Jesus. It's
just an example.
In this example, the people may have had great
compassion, really wanting to save the people from the
wrath of Hell or whatever. That is very kind, trully.
However, it could be thought that they did not have
wisdom - the wisdom to know what actually is of
benefit to those people. Hence their actions had a
negative effect, perhaps.
The point about the Mahayana path in my
understanding, is the union of compassion and wisdom.
These two must go together. So you don't plan "I'll do
this and this and this to help". I mean, you can
aspire to releive all sentient beings from suffering,
even if you don't know HOW. And that's the point -
Bodhichitta is two-pointed. It is 1) The wish to
attain perfect enlightenment 2) for the sake of all
sentient beings. The compassion is the wish to help -
the means to help is to fully liberate oneself from
suffering (become enlightened) and thus be capable of
helping others. And yes, when we're enlightened, then
we will know what to do. Until then we are like people
in quick-sand trying to pull each other out from the
same quick-sand.
> The other point one should consider is that maybe
> there are a lot of sentient beings who do not wish
> for this form of salvation.
It does seem to me that all beings in what one may
call Samsara have suffering, of one kind or another.
And it seems also that none actually want that
suffering - all are happy to be releived of it.
Sometimes I myself may even cling to my suffering.
This is a rather strange thing to do, but... it is not
really true somehow. Sometimes we make ourselves
suffer, but on a deep level we really do not want
this, I promise. Any being will be happy to be
releived of suffering, trully. It's just the
unskillful trying-to-be-helpful which may be really
unwanted. But only people like me do that, not
enlightened beings!
Sorry to anyone who this is troubling. Hope it is
"on-topic" enough!
Best wishes
Justin
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