--Apple-Mail-4-729022886
charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
>
Hi Listmembers,
John Baker, sorry to have freaked you out with my (I thought) innocuous=20=
post. I didn't know that the idea that musicians might want to know how=20=
to play their instrument would cause a storm of controversy. I didn't=20
mean to put anyone down or tell anyone what kind of music they should=20
be playing. Personally I think the relatively recent musical divide=20
between performers and listeners is unfortunate. I would like to see=20
everybody participating in music on some level because I think it's=20
healthy. Please let me respond to a few of your points. I am not trying=20=
to argue with you, but I think you misunderstood a few things I said in=20=
my original post.
>
> Shakuhachi is a traditional Japanes instrument.=A0 I am
> a US human.=A0 I do not even admire very much of
> Japanese culture, so I do not want to imitate it.
> Does anyone have the right to define for me what I
> should play?=A0 Not unless I ask them to.
Play what you want on a shakuhachi. This is a shakuhachi list. What is=20=
shakuhachi? If the definition is "any end blown flute with 5 holes and=20=
a minor pentatonic scale played by anybody in any manner" then we're=20
fine. I personally think that it's more than simply buying or making an=20=
instrument. The music itself is also part of shakuhachi. For example=20
you can play "Wild Thing" or "Random Finger Movements" on any kind of=20
guitar. If you happen to play "Wild Thing" or "Random Finger Movements"=20=
on a flamenco guitar are you playing flamenco music? Words again, but=20
that's what we have. Shakuhachi music is vast, but even in the case of=20=
the most untraditional shakuhachi music, the best stuff is performed by=20=
people who have at least some traditional training. Another thing is=20
it's much more difficult (almost impossible) to learn shakuhachi=20
without instruction than to learn guitar for example. That's my=20
experience anyway.
>
> Opinion masquerading as fact is still only opinion.
> This is one.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Baker
>
>> (the most habitual improvisors in Western classical
>> music) have a
>> classical vocabulary
>
> This is true in a linear, rational universe. There is
> also a whole range of improvisation based on modal,
> static harmonies. Musical education focuses on things
> it can analyze: chord patterns, themes, variations.
> There's a whole universe of music outside this sphere.
> Memory is only one aspect of listening.
I'm well aware that there are more than chord patterns to music. I have=20=
made several CD's with Pierre Henry, father figure of musique concrete=20=
and electroacoustic music. He was one of the first major composers to=20
start making compositions from sounds rather than notes back in the=20
early 50's. I am not a conventional or conservative musician. I just=20
enjoy having some measure of control over what's coming out of my=20
instrument. Pierre was introduced to shakuhachi music by Henri Michaux=20=
and he loves it because according to him it has a broader palette than=20=
western flute. Those sounds he admires are the result of long and=20
arduous study.
>> with no musical vocabulary to
>> back it up people tend
>> to stick to whatever is easy to produce given the
>> mechanics of the
>> instrument they are playing.
>
> By this argument, you would recommend writers to
> practice typing other people's writing in order to
> develop their own style. My point is that human
> ingenuity is the source of inovation, and imitation is
> the source of copies.
More like learn a language before writing poetry in it. I could write a=20=
poem in Japanese. It would be something like:
Ama Ebi, Unagi, Okonomayaki
Konichiwa, Tsu no Meri, Shika no Tone
Tempura, Utaguchi, Sayonara
Because my Japanese is limited to salutations, food words, and=20
shakuhachi terms. No matter how much my poem makes me feel good, it=20
still sucks. If I studied Japanese for a few years I might come up with=20=
something a bit more eloquent.
I don't think there are any hard and fast lines between innovation,=20
tradition, imitation, originality, nor do these concepts exist in=20
opposition to each other. All art exists on a continuum. Every artist=20=
uses some measure of all of those.
> Tradition is convention. Innovation is new. Someone
> has to start a new tradition. Honkyoku was once new
> and controversial.
I doubt that. Honkyoku was developed by like minded individuals in a=20
sequestered environment minus, needless to say, music critics, hostile=20=
audiences and email newsgroups.
Please don't flame me! I'm not trying to bum you out. These are just my=20=
opinions based on 30 years as a full time professional musician and=20
improvisor and 9 years studying, performing and teaching traditional=20
Japanese music. I also improvise with the shakuhachi. Usually when I do=20=
so it's either within the context of honkyoku or my playing is informed=20=
by those techniques. I've recorded shakuhachi with punk, blues, folk,=20
improv and jazz musicians. But I wouldn't have if I couldn't play the=20
thing. Many thanks to James Nyoraku Schlefer for patiently teaching me.=20=
It's fun to get outside of the tradition and it's also fun to bring=20
some of the tradition into places you wouldn't expect to find it.
Brian Tairaku
--Apple-Mail-4-729022886
charset=ISO-8859-1
<excerpt>
</excerpt>
Hi Listmembers,
John Baker, sorry to have freaked you out with my (I thought)
innocuous post. I didn't know that the idea that musicians might want
to know how to play their instrument would cause a storm of
controversy. I didn't mean to put anyone down or tell anyone what kind
of music they should be playing. Personally I think the relatively
recent musical divide between performers and listeners is unfortunate.
I would like to see everybody participating in music on some level
because I think it's healthy. Please let me respond to a few of your
points. I am not trying to argue with you, but I think you
misunderstood a few things I said in my original post.=20
=
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller><x-tad-smaller>=
</x-tad-smaller></smaller></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt>
=
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller><x-tad-smaller>=
Shakuhachi
is a traditional Japanes instrument.=A0 I am
a US human.=A0 I do not even admire very much of
Japanese culture, so I do not want to imitate it.=20
Does anyone have the right to define for me what I
should play?=A0 Not unless I ask them to.
</x-tad-smaller></smaller></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt>
Play what you want on a shakuhachi. This is a shakuhachi list. What is
shakuhachi? If the definition is "any end blown flute with 5 holes and
a minor pentatonic scale played by anybody in any manner" then we're
fine. I personally think that it's more than simply buying or making
an instrument. The music itself is also part of shakuhachi. For
example you can play "Wild Thing" or "Random Finger Movements" on any
kind of guitar. If you happen to play "Wild Thing" or "Random Finger
Movements" on a flamenco guitar are you playing flamenco music? Words
again, but that's what we have. Shakuhachi music is vast, but even in
the case of the most untraditional shakuhachi music, the best stuff is
performed by people who have at least some traditional training.
Another thing is it's much more difficult (almost impossible) to learn
shakuhachi without instruction than to learn guitar for example.
That's my experience anyway.=20
=
<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller><x-tad-smaller>=
Opinion masquerading as fact is still only opinion.=20
This is one.
Regards,
John Baker
</x-tad-smaller></smaller></smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><excerpt>
<excerpt>(the most habitual improvisors in Western classical
music) have a
classical vocabulary
</excerpt>
This is true in a linear, rational universe. There is
also a whole range of improvisation based on modal,
static harmonies. Musical education focuses on things
it can analyze: chord patterns, themes, variations.
There's a whole universe of music outside this sphere.
Memory is only one aspect of listening.
</excerpt>
I'm well aware that there are more than chord patterns to music. I
have made several CD's with Pierre Henry, father figure of musique
concrete and electroacoustic music. He was one of the first major
composers to start making compositions from sounds rather than notes
back in the early 50's. I am not a conventional or conservative
musician. I just enjoy having some measure of control over what's
coming out of my instrument. Pierre was introduced to shakuhachi music
by Henri Michaux and he loves it because according to him it has a
broader palette than western flute. Those sounds he admires are the
result of long and arduous study.=20
<excerpt><excerpt>with no musical vocabulary to
back it up people tend
to stick to whatever is easy to produce given the
mechanics of the
instrument they are playing.
</excerpt>
By this argument, you would recommend writers to
practice typing other people's writing in order to
develop their own style. My point is that human
ingenuity is the source of inovation, and imitation is
the source of copies.
</excerpt>
More like learn a language before writing poetry in it. I could write
a poem in Japanese. It would be something like:=20
Ama Ebi, Unagi, Okonomayaki
Konichiwa, Tsu no Meri, Shika no Tone
Tempura, Utaguchi, Sayonara
Because my Japanese is limited to salutations, food words, and
shakuhachi terms. No matter how much my poem makes me feel good, it
still sucks. If I studied Japanese for a few years I might come up
with something a bit more eloquent.=20
I don't think there are any hard and fast lines between innovation,
tradition, imitation, originality, nor do these concepts exist in
opposition to each other. All art exists on a continuum. Every artist
uses some measure of all of those.=20
<excerpt>Tradition is convention. Innovation is new. Someone
has to start a new tradition. Honkyoku was once new
and controversial.
</excerpt>
I doubt that. Honkyoku was developed by like minded individuals in a
sequestered environment minus, needless to say, music critics, hostile
audiences and email newsgroups.=20
Please don't flame me! I'm not trying to bum you out. These are just
my opinions based on 30 years as a full time professional musician and
improvisor and 9 years studying, performing and teaching traditional
Japanese music. I also improvise with the shakuhachi. Usually when I
do so it's either within the context of honkyoku or my playing is
informed by those techniques. I've recorded shakuhachi with punk,
blues, folk, improv and jazz musicians. But I wouldn't have if I
couldn't play the thing. Many thanks to James Nyoraku Schlefer for
patiently teaching me. It's fun to get outside of the tradition and
it's also fun to bring some of the tradition into places you wouldn't
expect to find it. =20
Brian Tairaku
--Apple-Mail-4-729022886--
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