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hi Justin,
i have tried only once to play the same shakuhachi before and after
urushi.
but it was just 2 thin layers of urushi and i am not sure i could
hear the difference - at least
back then. i also admit to have in my 2.3 shakuhachi (by Murai
Eigoro) a thin layer of urushi which has
protected it from moisture and cracking successfully for a few years.
but you can see (and hear) the structure and surface of the bamboo,
giving it the mellow, subtle
and sometimes rough sound that i find so beautiful (you may find it
dull though). for me that's
an important part of the soul of shakuhachi music apart from the
music pieces and the players heart.
i am more referring to jiari instruments where the urushi is so thick
that it is a filling rather
than a layer which applies for most shakuhachi. its hard to tell the
difference because
i have never seen the same shakuhachi bamboo where the maker shapes
and tunes the bamboo first
to a high level and then goes back and applies the urushi filling and
again shaping and tuning it.
so we can only refer to players we know are using the more natural
instruments/ lacquer filled ones
and see what sound we prefer and where we feel more connected. that
everyone has to find out for themselves.
the urushi allergie accounts are a reminder that we can go too far
using the lacquer to a point where it affects not
only the balance between bamboo and natural sound but even harms our
own balance to a point where we develop
severe reactions playing it.
happy blowing from singapore.
delmar
On 12 Jul 2007, at 09:18, Justin . wrote:
> Hi Delmar
> Have you tried playing a shakuhachi before and after
> it has been lacquered, giving you this conclusion? I
> found it quite interesting that, when I made those
> recordings for this list, of some hochiku before and
> after applying urushi, no-one claimed they could hear
> any difference in the sound. Actually, I do think it
> makes a slight difference, but that also is relative
> to how much work has been done inside the bamboo in
> the first place. For example, even with a hochiku, or
> any kind of jinashi shakuhachi, the maker will be
> using files inside the bamboo. That makes the surface
> rough. The more of that work which is done, the more
> rough surface you have. Roughness makes the sound
> dull. Urushi then serves to help make the surface
> smooth again.
> But more than just whether it has urushi or not, is
> the effect of the maker, crafting the inside to bring
> out the sound wanted, balancing the notes, etc. This
> crafting is by changing the shape. A coat of urushi,
> which is by the way extremely thin, does not actually
> have so much effect on that process. As mentioned
> though, it does greatly improve the longevity of the
> instrument, acting as a water barrier. This is surely
> one of the reasons why urushi has been used for so
> many hundreds of years on so many of the traditional
> Japanese instruments.
>
> Some makers nowadays may prefer to use more modern
> artificial coating to do the same job. This is perhaps
> a good solution for those with urushi allergies. As
> for the people I meet here in Japan, they tend to
> prefer the traditional and natural urushi coating,
> which seems so loved here.
>
> Best wishes
> Justin
>
>
> --- delmar mavignier <mavignier@passionpixels.com>
> wrote:
>
>> and really... why do we need urushi in the first
>> place.
>> much nicer sound without. and playing the bamboo
>> instead of the lacquer.
>>
>> anyone?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ______________
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your
> story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
> http://sims.yahoo.com/
> _____________________________________________
>
> List un/subscription information is at:
> http://mail.communication.ucsd.edu:88/shaku/listsub.html
--Apple-Mail-4--257544823
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
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-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; ">hi Justin,<BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> =
</DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">i have tried only once to =
play the same shakuhachi before and after urushi.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">but it was just 2 thin =
layers of urushi and i am not sure i could hear the difference - at =
least</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">back then.=A0i also admit to have in my 2.3 =
shakuhachi (by=A0Murai Eigoro) a thin layer of urushi which =
has</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">protected it from moisture and cracking successfully =
for a few years.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">but you can see (and hear) =
the structure and surface of the bamboo, giving it the mellow, =
subtle</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">and sometimes rough sound that i find so beautiful =
(you may find it dull though). for me that's=A0</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">an important part of the =
soul of shakuhachi music apart from the music pieces and the players =
heart.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">i am more referring to =
jiari instruments where the urushi is so thick that it is a filling =
rather</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">than a layer which applies for most shakuhachi. its =
hard to tell the difference because</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">i have never seen the same =
shakuhachi bamboo where the maker shapes and tunes the bamboo =
first</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">to a high level and then goes back and applies the =
urushi filling and again shaping and tuning it.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">so we can only refer to =
players we know are using the more natural instruments/ lacquer filled =
ones</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">and see what sound we prefer and where we feel more =
connected. that everyone has to find out for =
themselves.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">the urushi allergie =
accounts are a reminder that we can go too far using the lacquer to a =
point where it affects not</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">only the balance between =
bamboo and natural sound but even harms our own balance to a point where =
we develop</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">severe reactions playing it.</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">happy blowing from =
singapore.=A0</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Helvetica">delmar</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica">=A0</FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Helvetica"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></FONT></DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 12 Jul =
2007, at 09:18, Justin . wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Hi Delmar</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Have you =
tried playing a shakuhachi before and after</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">it has =
been lacquered, giving you this conclusion? I</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">found it quite interesting that, when I made =
those</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">recordings for this list, of =
some hochiku before and</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">after =
applying urushi, no-one claimed they could hear</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">any difference in the sound. Actually, I do think =
it</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">makes a slight difference, but that also is =
relative</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to how much work has been done =
inside the bamboo in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the first place. For =
example, even with a hochiku, or</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">any kind of =
jinashi shakuhachi, the maker will be</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">using =
files inside the bamboo. That makes the surface</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">rough. The more of that work which is done, the =
more</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rough surface you have. =
Roughness makes the sound</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dull. Urushi =
then serves to help make the surface</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">smooth =
again.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But more than just whether it =
has urushi or not, is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the effect of the maker, =
crafting the inside to bring</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">out the sound =
wanted, balancing the notes, etc. This</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">crafting =
is by changing the shape. A coat of urushi,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">which =
is by the way extremely thin, does not actually</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">have so much effect on that process. As =
mentioned</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">though, it does greatly improve =
the longevity of the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">instrument, acting as a =
water barrier. This is surely</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">one of the =
reasons why urushi has been used for so</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">many =
hundreds of years on so many of the traditional</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Japanese instruments.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Some makers =
nowadays may prefer to use more modern</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">artificial coating to do the same job. This is perhaps</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">a good solution for those with urushi allergies. =
As</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">for the people I meet here in Japan, they tend =
to</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">prefer the traditional and natural urushi =
coating,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">which seems so loved =
here.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Best wishes</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Justin</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--- =
delmar mavignier <<A =
href=3D"mailto:mavignier@passionpixels.com">mavignier@passionpixels.com</A=
>></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">wrote:</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and really... why do we need =
urushi in the first</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">place.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">much nicer sound without. and playing the =
bamboo</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">instead of the =
lacquer.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">anyone?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">:-)</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; =
">________________________________________________________________________=
____________</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Moody friends. Drama queens. =
Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! =
Games.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://sims.yahoo.com">http://sims.yahoo.com</A>/ <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">_____________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">List =
un/subscription information is at:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN><A =
href=3D"http://mail.communication.ucsd.edu:88/shaku/listsub.html">http://m=
ail.communication.ucsd.edu:88/shaku/listsub.html</A></DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>=
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Received on Wed Jul 11 21:56 PDT 2007
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