> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--B_3098937754_41147
> A lot of you folks out there in places other than Japan are rather isolated
> and on your own as far as shakuhachi and it's tradition and lore are
> concerned. Hang in there and eventually you will have your own tradition and
> lore. Bear in mind that shakuhachi have been played, some say, for around
> 1,200 years in Japan, and that all of you live in countries where shakuhachi
> has a history of less than one or two generations. It's going to take a while
> to be able to walk and talk. In addition, you are living in a culture other
> than Japanese with different cultural perceptions, ideas. The whole of
> shakuhachi in a Japanese context simply will not fit your cultural mold. So
> you have to take what sort of fits and and make up the rest as you go along
> for the long haul.
>
> In the meantime, there seems to be a real need for information, education,
> experience. If someone or everyone wants to set up the wiki page Duke
> suggested, many of us "old timers" would probably be able to offer things we
> have learned and experienced. For now...
>
> Tom's convention: Always write, when using Roman letters, the names of the
> lower octave (otsu) notes Capitalized, only the first letter, like in Ro, Tsu,
> Re, Chi, Ri and so on. Always write, when using Roman letters, the names of
> the second octave (kan) as not capitalized like in ro, tsu, re, chi, hi and so
> on. Always write the names of the third octave (dai kan) with all letters
> CALITALIZED, like TSU, RE, CHI and so on.
>
> Makes me feel there is also a real need for everyone to be able to write
> shakuhachi notation in Japanese katakana symbols with a computer, vertically
> on the page reading right to left, with all the various systems of time
> notation available. Anyone possess a copy of Fontographer, about US$900 some
> time ago, and want to work up the software? Frequently, questions like "How
> do you finger so and so?" need to be asked to expand the number of alternative
> fingerings for a specified phrase. Anyone have a Great Fingering Chart that
> lists many fingering positions, their relative pitches and which could be
> added to. Some may have discovered fingering positions that others have not
> experienced yet. All in all, there are lots of them, some used for this music
> and some for that music. Some are responsive on some flutes but don't respond
> at all on other flutes...
>
>
>
>
> HOCHIKU vs. SHAKUHACHI
>
>
>
>
> Some of you shakuhachi fans have asked about hochiku flutes so perhaps it is
> time to put up some more detailed information such as it is now. Here is the
> first try...based in part on discussions with Kodama Hiroyuki and observations
> of his hochiku and hochiku by Endo Eiji, the other fellow using hochiku
> nearby, and in part on experiences lived by just being in the Japanese
> shakuhachi community for a long time.
>
> First, to make it a little easier, let's call hochiku hochiku and shakuhachi
> shakuhachi so that everyone knows what is what. The plural of "hochiku" is
> "hochiku" and the plural of "shakuhachi" is "shakuhachi"!
>
> Hochiku, or as some write, Hocchiku, flutes are always (except for the
> exceptions) one piece flutes, without the familiar connecting joint near the
> center of the length. Shakuhachi are almost always made in two pieces with
> the joint near the center of the length. Any shakuhachi made in one piece is
> called "nobe". The "be" of "nobe" sounds like the "ba" of "baby". "Nobe" can
> be translated into English as "total".
>
> Hochiku are usually much thicker (fatter) and longer than shakuhachi so are
> commonly heavier than shakuhachi.
>
> More often than not hochiku have no inlay material (buffalo horn, ivory,
> plastic, whatever) at the mouthpiece. NOTE: "mouthpiece" is being changed to
> "utaguchi". The plural of "utaguchi" is "utaguchi".
>
> The angle of the utaguchi plane of hochiku is closer to perpendicular to the
> length of the bamboo than utaguchi angles commonly seen on shakuhachi.
>
> The size of the hole at the top of hochiku varies widely and can be quite
> large while the size of the hole at the top of shakuhachi is very nearly the
> same for all shakuhachi regardless of the length. The hole at the utaguchi
> end of shakuhachi varies a bit among shakuhachi makers but nowadays there is
> some consensus that things are generally easier when these open ends are all
> nearly the same in internal size. The external size varies widely, of course,
> depending on the fatness of the bamboo. What this means is that for
> shakuhachi with large bores there will be a thin wall partially closing the
> open end at the very top of the flute in the area where the shakuhachi is
> placed against one's chin. This little wall is called "iki kaeshi". "Iki"
> means breath and "kaeshi" means return. On some shakuhachi, and even hochiku,
> a thin ring of bamboo is inserted into the utaguchi end to replace part of the
> removed membrane and is then filed out in the area where the breath is blown
> over the edge, leaving a sort of crescent shaped partial ring of different
> color and texture. Sometimes material other than bamboo is used to reduce the
> size of the opening at the utaguchi, car body putty, resin, whatever.
>
> Hochiku are mostly bamboo bores that have grown while shakuhachi are bamboo
> and some other material bores that have been made. 0n certain occasions for
> whatever reasons filling material is added to the grown bore while on other
> occasions for perhaps other reasons bamboo material is removed from the grown
> bore.
>
> The membranes at the nodes of hochiku (on the inside) are removed to a lesser
> degree than the membranes at the nodes of shakuhachi.
>
> The node membranes of hochiku are usually visible while the node membranes of
> shakuhachi are almost never visible.
>
> The frequency of the lowest normal note (neither meru nor karu), Ro, of
> hochiku is not adjusted to any specified frequency. The frequency of the
> lowest normal note of shakuhachi is, these days, nearly always adjusted so
> some specified frequency of the equal temperament scale.
>
> The frequencies of the fingering positions for all notes, other than Ro, of
> the open hole hochiku scale (Tsu, Re, Chi, Ri, Japanese Inakabushi Yosenpo)
> are not adjusted to conform precisely to any musical scale, nor are they
> adjusted to sound a specified musical distance from the basic tone (Ro).
> These same notes of the shakuhachi are almost always adjusted to conform to
> the the musical scale currently in vogue, nowadays, the equal temperament
> scale with A4 somewhere between 440 and 445 hz, depending upon with whom one
> is talking.
>
> Finger hole location determination is about the the same for both hochiku and
> shakuhachi, being in most cases a sort of good guess full of hope.
>
> Hochiku, as bamboo flutes and as a term used and understood by Kodama, are as
> long as or longer than about nishaku-gosun or rokusun. Some of the shorter
> big fat flutes used by Watazumi would not be hochiku according to Kodama.
> Further, what might be called semi-hochiku which have some but not a lot of
> filler in the bore (some call them "ji-nashi" = without "ji" or filler), could
> not be classes as hochiku by Kodama because of the added filler.
>
> Dinnertime; responses welcome, at your convenience, thank you.
>
> Tom Deaver
>
> Bei Shu Shakuhachi Workshop
> http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~shaku100/
Thanks Tom, for sharing with us from your vast knowledge and experience.
I learned a lot about HOCHIKU.
Ronnie
--B_3098937754_41147
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Getting there</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Helvetica">A lot of you folks out there in places o=
ther than Japan are rather isolated and on your own as far as shakuhachi and=
it's tradition and lore are concerned. Hang in there and eventually y=
ou will have your own tradition and lore. Bear in mind that shakuhachi=
have been played, some say, for around 1,200 years in Japan, and that all o=
f you live in countries where shakuhachi has a history of less than one or t=
wo generations. It's going to take a while to be able to walk and talk=
. In addition, you are living in a culture other than Japanese with di=
fferent cultural perceptions, ideas. The whole of shakuhachi in a Japa=
nese context simply will not fit your cultural mold. So you have to ta=
ke what sort of fits and and make up the rest as you go along for the long h=
aul.<BR>
<BR>
In the meantime, there seems to be a real need for information, education, =
experience. If someone or everyone wants to set up the wiki page Duke =
suggested, many of us "old timers" would probably be able to offer=
things we have learned and experienced. For now...<BR>
<BR>
Tom's convention: Always write, when using Roman letters, the names o=
f the lower octave (otsu) notes Capitalized, only the first letter, like in =
Ro, Tsu, Re, Chi, Ri and so on. Always write, when using Roman letters=
, the names of the second octave (kan) as not capitalized like in ro, tsu, r=
e, chi, hi and so on. Always write the names of the third octave (dai =
kan) with <U>all</U> letters CALITALIZED, like TSU, RE, CHI and so on.<BR>
<BR>
Makes me feel there is also a real need for everyone to be able to write sh=
akuhachi notation in Japanese katakana symbols with a computer, vertically o=
n the page reading right to left, with all the various systems of time notat=
ion available. Anyone possess a copy of Fontographer, about US$900 som=
e time ago, and want to work up the software? Frequently, questions li=
ke "How do you finger so and so?" need to be asked to expand the n=
umber of alternative fingerings for a specified phrase. Anyone have a =
Great Fingering Chart that lists many fingering positions, their relative pi=
tches and which could be added to. Some may have discovered fingering =
positions that others have not experienced yet. All in all, there are =
lots of them, some used for this music and some for that music. Some a=
re responsive on some flutes but don't respond at all on other flutes...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
<P ALIGN=3DCENTER>
<FONT FACE=3D"Helvetica"><U>HOCHIKU vs. SHAKUHACHI<BR>
</U><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
--B_3098937754_41147--
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29
: Mon Feb 03 2003 - 09:09:51 PST
<P>
<FONT FACE=3D"Helvetica">Some of you shakuhachi fans have asked about hochiku=
flutes so perhaps it is time to put up some more detailed information such =
as it is now. Here is the first try...based in part on discussions wit=
h Kodama Hiroyuki and observations of his hochiku and hochiku by Endo Eiji, =
the other fellow using hochiku nearby, and in part on experiences lived by j=
ust being in the Japanese shakuhachi community for a long time.<BR>
<BR>
First, to make it a little easier, let's call hochiku hochiku and sha=
kuhachi shakuhachi so that everyone knows what is what.<FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000"=
> The plural of "hochiku" is "hochiku" and the plu=
ral of "shakuhachi" is "shakuhachi"!<BR>
</FONT><BR>
Hochiku, or as some write, Hocchiku, flutes are <U>always</U> (except for t=
he exceptions) one piece flutes, without the familiar connecting joint near =
the center of the length. Shakuhachi are <U>almost</U> always made in =
two pieces with the joint near the center of the length. <U>Any</U> sh=
akuhachi made in one piece is called "nobe". The "be&qu=
ot; of "nobe" sounds like the "ba" of "baby". =
"Nobe" can be translated into English as "total".<=
BR>
<BR>
Hochiku are usually much thicker (fatter) and longer than shakuhachi so are=
commonly heavier than shakuhachi.<BR>
<BR>
More often than not hochiku have no inlay material (buffalo horn, ivory, pl=
astic, whatever) at the mouthpiece. <FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000">NOTE: "=
mouthpiece" is being changed to "utaguchi". The plural =
of "utaguchi" is "utaguchi".<BR>
</FONT><BR>
The angle of the utaguchi plane of hochiku is closer to perpendicular to th=
e length of the bamboo than utaguchi angles commonly seen on shakuhachi.<BR>
<BR>
The size of the hole at the top of hochiku varies widely and can be quite l=
arge while the size of the hole at the top of shakuhachi is very nearly the =
same for all shakuhachi regardless of the length. The hole at the utag=
uchi end of shakuhachi varies a bit among shakuhachi makers but nowadays the=
re is some consensus that things are generally easier when these open ends a=
re all nearly the same in internal size. The external size varies wide=
ly, of course, depending on the fatness of the bamboo. What this means=
is that for shakuhachi with large bores there will be a thin wall partially=
closing the open end at the very top of the flute in the area where the sha=
kuhachi is placed against one's chin. This little wall is called "=
;iki kaeshi". "Iki" means breath and "kaeshi"=
means return. On some shakuhachi, and even hochiku, a thin ring of ba=
mboo is inserted into the utaguchi end to replace part of the removed membra=
ne and is then filed out in the area where the breath is blown over the edge=
, leaving a sort of crescent shaped partial ring of different color and text=
ure. Sometimes material other than bamboo is used to reduce the size o=
f the opening at the utaguchi, car body putty, resin, whatever.<BR>
<BR>
Hochiku are mostly bamboo bores that have grown while shakuhachi are bamboo=
and some other material bores that have been made. 0n certain occasio=
ns for whatever reasons filling material is added to the grown bore while on=
other occasions for perhaps other reasons bamboo material is removed from t=
he grown bore.<BR>
<BR>
The membranes at the nodes of hochiku (on the inside) are removed to a less=
er degree than the membranes at the nodes of shakuhachi.<BR>
<BR>
The node membranes of hochiku are usually visible while the node membranes =
of shakuhachi are almost never visible.<BR>
<BR>
The frequency of the lowest normal note (neither meru nor karu), Ro, of hoc=
hiku is not adjusted to any specified frequency. The frequency of the =
lowest normal note of shakuhachi is, these days, nearly always adjuste=
d so some specified frequency of the equal temperament scale.<BR>
<BR>
The frequencies of the fingering positions for all notes, other than Ro, of=
the open hole hochiku scale (Tsu, Re, Chi, Ri, Japanese Inakabushi Yosenpo)=
are not adjusted to conform precisely to any musical scale, nor are they ad=
justed to sound a specified musical distance from the basic tone (Ro).  =
;These same notes of the shakuhachi are almost always adjusted to conform to=
the the musical scale currently in vogue, nowadays, the equal temperament s=
cale with A4 somewhere between 440 and 445 hz, depending upon with whom one =
is talking.<BR>
<BR>
Finger hole location determination is about the the same for both hochiku a=
nd shakuhachi, being in most cases a sort of good guess full of hope.<BR>
<BR>
Hochiku, as bamboo flutes and as a term used and understood by Kodama, are =
as long as or longer than about nishaku-gosun or rokusun. Some of the =
shorter big fat flutes used by Watazumi would not be hochiku according to Ko=
dama. Further, what might be called semi-hochiku which have some but n=
ot a lot of filler in the bore (some call them "ji-nashi" =3D withou=
t "ji" or filler), could not be classes as hochiku by Kodama becau=
se of the added filler.<BR>
<BR>
Dinnertime; responses welcome, at your convenience, thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Tom Deaver<BR>
<BR>
Bei Shu Shakuhachi Workshop<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~shaku100/></FONT> <BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Helvetica"><BR>
Thanks Tom, for sharing with us from your vast knowledge and experience.<BR=
>
I learned a lot about HOCHIKU.<BR>
<BR>
Ronnie</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>