My antennae also perked at a claim to "know" who or how many people
reach enlightenment anywhere.
I think this very interesting thread is really about to what degree
someone is able to free themselves from the control of the personal
nature, with all it's various mental and emotional identity habits, and
simply "be" in the timeless stream of life -- AND what activities help
them to do this to greater degrees. . . such as blowing Zen, zazen,
meditation, prayer, hiking, etc.. Perhaps a little oversimplified.
Bill
__________________
On Friday, April 4, 2003, at 01:08 PM, Karl Young wrote:
>
> Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion that "So much Zen,
> so little enlightenment" is an anomalous situation in the US - is that
> as opposed to the enlightenment/practitioner ratio in modern Japan,
> warring states China, medieval Korea,... and how did you determine
> those ratios as per your conclusion ?
>
>> Windsor,
>>
>>
>>> I conjecture that the spiritual sensations brought on by shakuhachi
>>> playing
>>> are
>>> mostly due to repeatedly taking deep breaths and then exhaling
>>> slowly and with
>>> fine control through a tiny opening between pursed lips: changes
>>> blood-gas
>>> levels. (Compare the various methods of breathing used to allay
>>> anxiety or to
>>> assist exertion in childbirth.)
>>>
>>
>> Apparently not a popular view.
>>
>> Ostensibly, the purpose of the practice of Zen is to achieve something
>> called enlightenment. While enlightenment remains undefined it is
>> portrayed
>> as something qualitative rather than quantitative--rather like
>> pregnancy.
>> And the most noticeable attribute of the practice of Zen is the
>> manipulation
>> of personal physiology through the assumption of specified physical
>> postures
>> and the control of breathing and other autonomic processes. If
>> playing the
>> shakuhachi is advantageous to the practice of Zen, it's likely
>> contributing
>> factors are development of discipline and management of physiology.
>>
>> It's curious that in the robust and growing American Zen community
>> there are
>> so few (if any) examples of enlightenment.
>>
>> So much Zen, so little enlightenment. Something's wrong somewhere.
>>
>> Nelson
>>
>
>
>
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