Interesting post. I responded to Mark off list with some geeky thoughts
about studying shakuhachi acoustics and I've always enjoyed Nelson's
comments. I think the shakuhachi presents a set of interesting physics
"problems", precisisely because of the "idiosyncracies" but I also think
the points here are well taken about what is actually useful and
interesting to players. Though I wouldn't suspect the situation to be
quite as extreme with guitarts (e.g. different production techniques for
different schools) I'm reminded of a friend who's a great jazz player
once talking about how much he loved the dead spot on his favorite
guitar; working around it helped to give his playing a certain flavor
that he really liked when he played that guitar.
>Dear Nelson and Mark,
>
>I admire this conversation to great length. I have
>been making transverse bamboo flutes for nearly 10
>years and I can only speak from my experience.
>
>I honestly wonder if math belongs in flute making (esp
>the shakuhachi)- Prior to making, I read a book by
>theobald Bohem on transverse flute making and a book
>by Lew Paxton Price. Needless to say, they were
>useless. And lew Paxton Price played it from a very
>scientific standpoint with I though was amuzing for a
>moment ( Being a software engineere).
>
>I made 7 flutes in the same key using his "Science"
>and ( Believe it or not) the flutes all sounded the
>same. They had no personality whatsoever. Which is
>odd considering each piece of bamboo is diffrent.
>
>I broke down and begged to study with Romy Benton who,
>in my opinion, makes the absolute best sounding bamboo
>flutes ever. But, the real hum-dinger was learning
>that Romy Benton used no math to place the holes or
>find the right lengths. It was almost like he could
>feel what keys the bamboo should be in. Wathching him
>make a flute is a rather surreal experience. This blew
>me away as a 19 yo engineere.
>
>So, with that in mind, I have come up with a few
>questions for you two, if not, all to ponder.
>
>1) What good practicing shakuhachi player wants an
> instrument that is 'Perfectly' made?
>
>2) Who would like to own a shakuhachi that was made
> using math and sciences, extensivly? Considering
>the
> instrument did not originate from either.
>
>3) How many shakuhachi players in Japan will take a
> maker seriously who is capable of making a
> shakuhachi for multiple players or Ryu?
>
>4) How many serious shakuhachi players own an
> instrument that uses those 'exact sciences'
> mentioned earlier?
>
>5) Is a shakuhachi that is made using exact sciences,
> considered a 'shakuhachi'?
>
>Serious dilemma, guys. I ponder these questions all
>to frequently.
>
>Cheers,
>Isaac
>
>
>--- Mark Millonas <millonas@email.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>
>>Nelson:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Your question translates to the desirable ratio
>>>
>>>
>>between even and odd
>>
>>
>>>harmonics. Which can be further reduced to the most
>>>
>>>
>>desirable ratio between
>>
>>
>>>the amplitudes of the second and third harmonics.
>>>
>>>
>>Once that is specified,
>>
>>
>>>the rest falls into place. This ratio can be
>>>
>>>
>>arrived at by ear, by arcane
>>
>>
>>>math ratios (phi and so on), or by throwing dice or
>>>
>>>
>>some such.
>>
>>
>>If that is all there is to it (amplitudes of the
>>primary relative to the
>>next two higher resonance)
>>then I would say the calculation part would be more
>>of less easy to
>>do. For example, if you wanted all the first
>>and second octave notes to be in the same ratio (you
>>pick the ratio you
>>personally want) then you effectively have a one
>>parameter family of bores. That is a playing
>>characteristic, but I'm
>>guessing there might be
>>more features that can be heard. Even so, I'm
>>interested in calculating a
>>bore that corresponds
>>to the desires of the flutemaker/player and also
>>understanding what kinds
>>of flexibility there might be
>>within those constraints, so if you told me the
>>ratio you want I could
>>tell you exactly which bore would best implement
>>that, or given any
>>constraints specified by
>>the maker, how to optimally perturb a given bore to
>>get there.
>>
>>So the question I would ask the experienced players
>>is: is Nelson
>>right? Would the
>>relative resonance strengths be the only thing you
>>would look for? If
>>those are ok for
>>your tastes is it your observation that this pretty
>>much pins down the
>>timbre, or is there something more?
>>
>>Humm, I was just making the point the Karl that I
>>didn't think it would be
>>that complicated, and now I'm
>>playing devil's advocate on the other side.
>>
>>Marko
>>
>>List subscription information is at:
>> http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html
>>
>>
>
>
>=====
>____________________________________________________________
>Isaac Marshall
>Seattle Shakuhachi Society
>http://www.megaseattle.com/shakuhachi/
>____________________________________________________________
>
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>
>
>
-- Karl Young University of California, SF Phone: (415) 221-4810 x3114 lab VA Medical Center, MRS Unit (114M) (415) 750-9463 home 4150 Clement Street FAX: (415) 668-2864 San Francisco, CA 94121 Email: kyoung@itsa.ucsf.eduList subscription information is at: http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html
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