>shakuhachi Mon, 22 Dec 2003 Volume 1 : Number 486
>
>In this issue:
>
> Re: Shakuhachi Notation- A problem/opportunity space?
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:11:33 -0500
>From: Karl Signell <signell@cpcug.org>
>To: joel taylor <joel.g.taylor@comcast.net>, Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
>Subject: Re: Shakuhachi Notation- A problem/opportunity space?
>Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031222120525.00a2a330@cpcug.org>
>
>At 02:00 AM 12/17/03 -0800, you wrote:
>>I think Kinko notation is the best we have so far
>
>"Best" for what purpose and for whom? The world of notation is full of
>various approaches, each with its purpose. In general, notation systems
>(Javanese court gamelan, European classical, Ottoman, etc.) serve their
>purposes at a given stage in history, or else performers and composers try
>to change them.
Of course.
I'm very familiar with cipher notation, being a long-time Javanese
gamelan player. I like it very much. And with most aspects of western
notation, including contemporary notation practices.
Perhaps I was unclear.
Best for whom?
Best for me, I suppose. And perhaps for other composers for the instrument.
And for what purpose?
For notating new music for shakuhachi.
I was positing that a Kinko-like notation is best for communicating
pieces for shakuhachi which make extensive use of alternative
fingerings, meric and kari and suri pitch-bending techniques, wind
sounds, etc...and which do not require precise notation of rhythm.
The honkyoku pieces fit this description.
So does the new music I'm working on.
> >But are there not substantive, sometimes important aspects of most of the
>>honkyoku performance practice that are not encapsulated in the notation?
>
>In some Kinko guilds, perhaps, but the purpose there is mnemonic, to jog
>your memory of a particular composition that you have already
>mastered. Writing out every little squiggle would limit the notation to a
>particular teacher's rendition at a particular time.
Yes, I know. I was just talking about notation, not complaining.
As Lou Harrison used to say,
"Notation should be unneccesary, but it is a comfort."
>But Chikumeisha Kinko notation is very specific and very detailed. Over
>the decades, Yamaguchi changed little in performance.
Can you be more precise, since you seem to know about this school
and/or this teacher?
What did change in performance?
I've noticed a great deal of difference re both timing and
pitch/timbre from one performance of a piece to another among many
players, which is not to say the pieces are "changed" in any radical
way.
> >Kinko notation as it functions is a very interesting animal in the musical
>>notation world. It is both a proscriptive and a descriptive notation to
>>some degree. Mostly proscriptive, since most of the notation is fingering
>>symbols
>
>"Prescriptive" doesn't refer only to fingering, it "prescribes" where and
>how to bend the notes, which which notes are meri, what octave, muraiki,
>etc. ("Proscriptive" would mean "forbidden"). "Descriptive" refers to
>transcription, as of an improvised performance.
Sorry about my spelling/vocabulary error. Thanks for the correction!
I meant prescriptive, as must have been obvious from the context?
> >There is no one to one correspondence possible between Kinko and western
>>notation.
>
>Agreed, although its concession to Western notation in the implied
>durations can mislead. The student must understand the durations only in
>the relative sense that two notated "beats" are somehow longer than one,
>but rarely twice as long. You gotta feel it after a lot of listening to
>the masters.
I was actually not thinking of the kind of Kinko notation used for
Kurokami and similar, where there are dots and lines to indicate
rhythm. I was thinking about Kinko notation with only relative
durations indicated, more like what you usually seen for Kyorei, or
Koku, for example.
But your remark about performance practice re performance of rhythms
that are written out with dots and lines is interesting.
> >... in the case of the traditional pieces there are no performance notes,
>>see your local sensei, if there is one...and if not, find recordings,
>>preferably with matching scores. Yes? No?
>
>Yes, playing along with recording but preferably *without* scores. The
>scores only set up inappropriate assumptions in the student's mind. The
>ear is a miraculous tool for learning. Don't underestimate it.
I won't Karl. I'm a big believer in the primacy of listening in music.
Thanks for your input!
joel
--Joel Taylor _____________________________________________
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