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You make a very good point, Herb. I agree with you about both not
cultivating the crap, and about taking the burden off Bruce.
Thanks Herb.
- Al
On May 12, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Herb Rodriguez wrote:
> It is very sad to see how this last run of comments has turned out.
>
> People are in a flutter about which comments offended them, which
> caused Jason to get more defensive and reactive and make more
> attacking comments. Is there any wonder why he reacted so?
>
> What if we had said nothing to him about it? Would he have reacted?
>
> This list tends to react largely to "offenses" but less so to nice
> or balanced comments.
>
> For example, in the "Sex and Gender in Japanese" thread, which
> started this latest war, once person writes:
>
> "Any Japanese teacher with any level of skill will point out `only
> girls say this` or `only boys say this.` I only had female Japanese
> teachers, but they made a point of teaching the boys some masculine
> verb-endings and things like that.
> Being a heathen, I tend to use them regularly. And randomly mix
> them with the femanine `wa.` It amuses people terribly."
>
> This was right on track with the topic, addressing the issue while
> ignoring the mud slinging. Nobody responded to it.
>
> This person continues with:
> "Back on topic... while Japanese words don`t have a gender,
> `shakuhachi` does have a male connotation, simply because as a rule
> only males play shakuhachi. And koto has a female connotation,
> because only women learn koto. But that connotation is strictly
> culture-based, not grammatically-based."
>
> Once again, right on track , nobody responds to it.
>
> When Alcvin wrote those emails about the Tsuru no Sugomori notation
> and then apologizes for mistakenly sending them to the list, only
> two people responded saying it was ok. Why not? It wasn't offensive
> enough?
>
> Is it too much for this group to be nice to people? Is it too much
> for this group to not take offense at every comment made? Is it too
> much for this group to hold their tongue and make comments that are
> on track with the topic and ignore the rest?
>
> What would have happened if there were no responses to Jason's
> comments, and we just went on with the topic or switched to a new
> topic?
>
> During 911, there were many notices of shakuhachi concerts in
> memory of those who passed, the survivors, world peace, etc.
>
> What would happen if THIS shakuhachi group would play shakuhachi
> for peace WITHIN THIS GROUP!
> What would happen if you played shakuhachi for anyone you felt made
> a rude or immature comment on this list rather than rail on them
> for feeling offended?
> What would happen if when YOU felt offended, you played shakuhachi
> for YOUR OWN peace of mind?
>
> Thich Nhat Hanh makes reference to what you water will grow, what
> you don't water will wither away.
> If you "water" anger, offense, etc, by giving it attention, that is
> what will grow. If you don't, it wont grow. Rather, "water"
> kindness, compassion, etc. and that is what will grow.
>
> Bruce gives us the gift of the possibility of this list. We should
> not have to burden him with moderating it. We should moderate
> ourselves, by being careful with our comments initially, not taking
> immediate offense at comments others make, and if we do, either
> make a polite response or keep it to ourselves and go play
> shakuhachi to foster our *own* peace.
>
> It has been said that the longest journey is between our head and
> our heart. I don't think that means the heart of anger and fear and
> retaliation. I hope that means the heart of compassion, forgiveness
> and love.
>
> I vote that Bruce not moderate our group and that we each continue
> on *our own* arduous journey on the road of compassion, forgiveness
> and love. Or else, why the hell are we playing shakuhachi! If our
> heart remains cold and full of anger, we might as well use that
> dead piece of bamboo as firewood.
>
> Thanks,
> Herb
>
> At 08:21 AM 05/12/2005, you wrote:
>> I really don't have time for this, but after requests from a
>> number of folks, I'm going to start moderating the list.
>>
>> Moderating, for those who may be unaware of the concept, means
>> that all messages will pass through my mailbox, and require
>> approval, before being distributed.
>>
>> Comments, or complaints about the change, should be directed here
>> (bjones@weber.ucsd.edu), offlist.
>> The list itself, is going to try to get back to its original
>> purpose, which is the discussion of shakuhachi-related stuff.
>>
>> Traffic of late almost makes me long for the science vs. art
>> argument of a couple of years ago.
>>
>> bj
>> _____________________________________________
>>
>> List un/subscription information is at:
>> http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29
: Fri Jan 06 2006 - 10:00:45 PST
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">You make a very good point, =
Herb. I agree with you about both not cultivating the crap, and about =
taking the burden off Bruce.=A0<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks Herb.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>- Al</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0<BR><DIV><DIV>On May 12, =
2005, at 9:22 AM, Herb Rodriguez wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"> <FONT =
size=3D"3">It is very sad to see how this last run of comments has =
turned out. <BR><BR> People are in a flutter about which comments =
offended them, which caused Jason to get more defensive and reactive and =
make more attacking comments. Is there any wonder why he reacted so? =
<BR><BR> What if we had said nothing to him about it? Would he have =
reacted? <BR><BR> This list tends to react largely to "offenses" but =
less so to nice or balanced comments.<BR><BR> For example, in the "Sex =
and Gender in Japanese" thread, which started this latest war, once =
person writes:<BR><BR> "Any Japanese teacher with any level of skill =
will point out `only girls say this` or `only boys say this.` I only had =
female Japanese teachers, but they made a point of teaching the boys =
some masculine verb-endings and things like that.<BR> Being a heathen, I =
tend to use them regularly. And randomly mix them with the femanine =
`wa.` It amuses people terribly."<BR><BR> This was right on track with =
the topic, addressing the issue while ignoring the mud slinging. Nobody =
responded to it.<BR><BR> This person continues with:<BR> "Back on =
topic... while Japanese words don`t have a gender, `shakuhachi` does =
have a male connotation, simply because as a rule only males play =
shakuhachi. And koto has a female connotation, because only women learn =
koto. But that connotation is strictly culture-based, not =
grammatically-based."<BR><BR> Once again, right on track , nobody =
responds to it.<BR><BR> When Alcvin wrote those emails about the Tsuru =
no Sugomori notation and then apologizes for mistakenly sending them to =
the list, only two people responded saying it was ok. Why not? It wasn't =
offensive enough? <BR><BR> Is it too much for this group to be nice to =
people? Is it too much for this group to not take offense at every =
comment made? Is it too much for this group to hold their tongue and =
make comments that are on track with the topic and ignore the =
rest?<BR><BR> What would have happened if there were no responses to =
Jason's comments, and we just went on with the topic or switched to a =
new topic?<BR><BR> During 911, there were many notices of shakuhachi =
concerts in memory of those who passed, the survivors, world peace, =
etc.<BR><BR> What would happen if THIS shakuhachi group would play =
shakuhachi for peace WITHIN THIS GROUP!<BR> What would happen if you =
played shakuhachi for anyone you felt made a rude or immature comment on =
this list rather than rail on them for feeling offended?<BR> What would =
happen if when YOU felt offended, you played shakuhachi for YOUR OWN =
peace of mind?<BR><BR> Thich Nhat Hanh makes reference to what you water =
will grow, what you don't water will wither away.<BR> If you "water" =
anger, offense, etc, by giving it attention, that is what will grow. If =
you don't, it wont grow. Rather, "water" kindness, compassion, etc. and =
that is what will grow.<BR><BR> Bruce gives us the gift of the =
possibility of this list. We should not have to burden him with =
moderating it. We should moderate ourselves, by being careful with our =
comments initially, not taking immediate offense at comments others =
make, and if we do, either make a polite response or keep it to =
ourselves and go play shakuhachi to foster our *own* peace.<BR><BR> It =
has been said that the longest journey is between our head and our =
heart. I don't think that means the heart of anger and fear and =
retaliation. I hope that means the heart of compassion, forgiveness and =
love.<BR><BR> I vote that Bruce not moderate our group and that we each =
continue on *our own* arduous journey on the road of compassion, =
forgiveness and love. Or else, why the hell are we playing shakuhachi! =
If our heart remains cold and full of anger, we might as well use that =
dead piece of bamboo as firewood.<BR><BR> Thanks,<BR> Herb<BR><BR> At =
08:21 AM 05/12/2005, you wrote:<BR> </FONT><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"cite" cite=3D""><FONT size=3D"3">I really don't have time for =
this, but after requests from a number of folks, I'm going to start =
moderating the list.<BR> =A0<BR> Moderating, for those who may be =
unaware of the concept, means that all messages will pass through my =
mailbox, and require approval, before being distributed.<BR> =A0<BR> =
Comments, or complaints about the change, should be directed here (<A =
href=3D"mailto:bjones@weber.ucsd.edu">bjones@weber.ucsd.edu</A>), =
offlist.<BR> The list itself, is going to try to get back to its =
original purpose, which is the discussion of shakuhachi-related =
stuff.<BR> =A0<BR> Traffic of late almost makes me long for the science =
vs. art argument of a couple of years ago.<BR> =A0<BR> bj<BR> =
_____________________________________________<BR><BR> List =
un/subscription information is at:<BR> =A0<A =
href=3D"http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html" =
eudora=3D"autourl">http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html></F=
ONT></BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=
_____________________________________________
http://communication.ucsd.edu/shaku/listsub.html