My 1st teacher, Steven Rowland, told me the same thing about the numbers, but as to why a variant order existed he didn't know.
--- On Wed, 9/2/09, shakuhachi <shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu> wrote:
> From: shakuhachi <shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: shakuhachi V1 #1283
> To: shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 3:19 AM
> shakuhachi
> Wed, 2
> Sep 2009 Volume 1 : Number
> 1283
>
> In this issue:
>
> Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on
> Kinko scores??
> Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on
> Kinko scores??
> Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on
> Kinko scores??
> Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on
> Kinko scores??
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Justin ." <justinasia@yahoo.com>
> To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on Kinko scores??
> Message-ID: <437047.74525.qm@web38104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Bruce=0ANowadays people don't pay any attention to the
> numbers. In the o=
> ld days the way to use the numbers was like this - start at
> the beginning, =
> and play through until you come to number 1, then skip from
> there to number=
> 2. Continue playing from there until you reach number 3,
> at which point yo=
> u skip to number 4, and so on.=0A=0AJin Nyodo was Miura
> Kindo's student so =
> I guess he was following him. Kindo and Rodo were students
> of Araki Chikuo,=
> on whose scores they based their own, and which contain
> these numbers thou=
> gh their origin is older.=0A=0AJustin Senryu=0Ahttp://senryushakuhachi.com/=
> =0A=0A--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Bruce Jones <bjones@weber.ucsd.edu>
> wrote:=0A=0A>=
> From: Bruce Jones <bjones@weber.ucsd.edu>=0A>
> Subject: [Shaku] Circled num=
> bers on Kinko scores??=0A> To: shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu=0A>
> Date: =
> Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:51 AM=0A> =0A> =0A>
> Bill Schultz drives down =
> to San Diego about once a month or=0A> so to give=0A>
> lessons to four of th=
> ose of us who live here.=A0 This=0A> month one of
> the=0A> students couldn't=
> make the lesson, so Bill gave a talk on=0A> Jin
> Nyodo's=0A> notation style=
> and how it related to the different kinds of=0A> pieces
> Jin=0A> was scorin=
> g.=0A> =0A> One of the pieces Bill picked was Sanya
> Sugagaki.=A0=0A> While =
> talking about the=0A> score, I noticed that it has the
> numbers 1 thru 4 (in=
> =0A> kanji) in circles in=0A> the score.=A0 They're
> not in order: #2 appear=
> s in the=0A> first line, #3 appears=0A> in the
> third-to-last line, and #1 &=
> #4 appear in the=0A> second-to-last line.=0A> (cf.
> http://shikan.org/JN_Sa=
> nya-Sugagaki.html)=0A> =0A> I remembered that a
> similar numbering appears o=
> n Jin's=0A> score for Akita=0A> Sugagaki, and that
> when I asked Masa Yoshiz=
> awa what they=0A> meant, he didn't=0A> really
> know.=A0 So I asked Bill.=A0 =
> He didn't really=0A> know either, except to=0A> say
> that the same numbers a=
> ppear on the Sanya Sugagaki=0A> score in the=0A> Goro
> Yamaguchi (aka Muira =
> Kindo) set.=0A> =0A> I'm wondering if anyone on the
> list knows what the=0A>=
> significance of the=0A> numbers is.=A0 This is not
> isolated to just these =
> two=0A> pieces, nor to just=0A> these two sets of
> scores.=0A> =0A> I went t=
> o check out the Kinko Shuppansha "Official" Kinko=0A>
> Ryu (according=0A> to=
> Masa) scores for Sanya Sugagaki to see if they also
> had=0A> the little=0A>=
> circled numbers in the score.=A0 They do.=A0 Then I=0A>
> checked a Mizuno R=
> odo=0A> Kinko score set, and the numbers appear there as
> well.=0A> =0A> The=
> y appear in a lot of pieces.=A0 Cursory examination=0A>
> of the Rodo book=0A=
> > shows them in Sanya Sugagaki, Akita Sugagaki,
> Koro=0A> Sugagaki, Saima=0A=
> > Sugagaki, Shizu no Kyoku, Kyo Reibo.=A0 The same is
> true=0A> for some of =
> those=0A> scores in the Shuppansha set.=A0 And those are
> not the=0A> only p=
> ieces with=0A> the numbers, that's just where I stopped
> cataloging.=0A> =0A=
> > The numbering isn't necessarily run true through
> the=0A> scores.=A0 While=
> the=0A> Kinko Shuppansha Saima Sugagaki score shows the
> numbers,=0A> the R=
> odo score=0A> doesn't.=A0 The numbering also doesn't
> necessarily run=0A> th=
> rough all the=0A> variations of Kinko scores.=A0 Notomi
> Judo didn't=0A> inc=
> lude them (but then,=0A> his scores are even more sparse
> than the Kindo/Gor=
> o set).=0A> =0A> So, does anyone know what the
> significance of the numbers=
> =0A> is?=0A> =0A> =0A>
> _____________________________________________=0A> =
> =0A> List un/subscription information is at:=0A> http://mail.communication.=
> ucsd.edu:9090/guest/RemoteListSummary/shakuhachi=0A>
> =0A=0A=0A
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:45:01 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Justin ." <justinasia@yahoo.com>
> To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on Kinko scores??
> Message-ID: <11286.73492.qm@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>
> > >...In the old days the way to use the numbers was
> like
> > this - start at
> > >the beginning, and play through until you come to
> > number 1, then skip from
> > >there to number2. Continue playing from there
> until you
> > reach number 3,
> > >at which point you skip to number 4, and so on.
> >
> > Do you have a source for this?
>
> Hi Bruce
> My source is my teacher, Araki Kodo V. If you are
> interested we are publishing the scores of Araki Kodo II
> (also known as Araki Chikuo) in red and black from his
> original hand. I am still working on it now but hopefully
> ready within a few months.
>
> Best wishes
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:07:48 -0700 (PDT)
> From: bjones@weber.ucsd.edu
> (Bruce Jones)
> To: shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on Kinko scores??
> Message-ID: <20090901180748.7BEED10A715@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
> >From: "Justin ." <justinasia@yahoo.com>
> >
> >> Do you have a source for this?
> >
> >My source is my teacher, Araki Kodo V.
>
> The reason I ask is that the skipping around doesn't make
> intuitive
> sense to me. On the scores, at least one piece -
> Akita Sugagaki - doesn't
> have a 1 on it anywhere. Additionally, Jin usually
> played quite close
> to his scores, and no where do I find him playing in the
> manner your
> interpretation of the numbers would suggest - and I have
> more versions
> of Jin playing than are on the CDs.
>
> Hmmm....
>
> >If you are interested we are publishing the scores of
> Araki Kodo II
> >(also known as Araki Chikuo) in red and black from his
> original hand.
> >I am still working on it now but hopefully ready within
> a few months.
>
> These sound interesting. I'm looking forward to
> seeing what they're
> like. Did they have the numbers on them?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Justin ." <justinasia@yahoo.com>
> To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [Shaku] Circled numbers on Kinko scores??
> Message-ID: <54805.12404.qm@web38107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
>
> Hi Bruce=0A=0A> >> Do you have a source for
> this?=0A> >=0A> >My source is m=
> y teacher, Araki Kodo V. =0A> =0A> The reason I ask
> is that the skipping ar=
> ound doesn't make=0A> intuitive=0A> sense to
> me.=0A=0AIf there are simple r=
> epeats, that can be indicated easily. It is because of the
> skipping around =
> that the numbers are necessary. =0A=0A> On the scores,
> at least one piece -=
> =0A> Akita Sugagaki - doesn't=0A> have a 1 on it
> anywhere.=0A=0APerhaps Jin=
> omitted it by accident.=0A=0A>=A0 Additionally, Jin
> usually=0A> played qui=
> te close=0A> to his scores, and no where do I find him
> playing in the=0A> m=
> anner your=0A> interpretation of the numbers would
> suggest - and I have=0A>=
> more versions=0A> of Jin playing than are on the
> CDs.=0A> =0A> Hmmm....=0A=
> =0AThere could be a number of reasons. One is that
> following the numbers gi=
> ves you a longer version. He may not have wanted to record
> longer versions,=
> even if he played them. After all, ignoring the numbers
> still gives you al=
> l the material, which may serve his recording
> purposes.=0A=0AAnother possib=
> ility is that he never even played the numbers way. It's
> not so uncommon fo=
> r playing practice to change while still preserving older
> remnants in notat=
> ion.=0A=0A> >If you are interested we are publishing
> the scores of=0A> Arak=
> i Kodo II=0A> >(also known as Araki Chikuo) in red
> and black from his=0A> o=
> riginal hand. =0A> >I am still working on it now but
> hopefully ready within=
> =0A> a few months.=0A> =0A> These sound
> interesting.=A0 I'm looking forward=
> to=0A> seeing what they're=0A> like.=A0 Did they
> have the numbers on them?=
> =0A=0AYes (in red so they are easy to see). Akita Sugagaki
> for example, has=
> numbers 1~4. This is my reason for suggesting that if
> Jin's didn't have 1,=
> he may have accidentally omitted it. Playing it in the way
> I propose of fo=
> llowing the numbers, results in the piece being played
> twice pretty much, w=
> ith one small part played only in the first time round, and
> the ending play=
> ed only the second time. This makes a lot of sense (i.e.
> not random).=0A=0A=
> Best wishes=0A=0AJustin Senryu=0Ahttp://senryushakuhachi.com/=0A=0A=0A> =0A=
> > =0A>
> _____________________________________________=0A> =0A>
> List un/subsc=
> ription information is at:=0A> http://mail.communication.ucsd.edu:9090/gues=
> t/RemoteListSummary/shakuhachi=0A> =0A=0A=0A
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of shakuhachi V1 #1283
> **************************
> _____________________________________________
>
> List un/subscription information is at:
> http://mail.communication.ucsd.edu:9090/guest/RemoteListSummary/shakuhachi
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>
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Received on Wed Sep 2 08:07:57 2009
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