Re: Kyorei

From: Ronnie Nyogetsu Seldin (Nyogetsu@nyc.rr.com)
Date: Sat Nov 22 2003 - 06:41:19 PST

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--B_3152338879_71701

>=20
> Hi Gene,
>=20
> To put it simply, these are different pieces. The SAN KOTEN of the Meian=
(or
> MYOAN) tradition, or three classical (oldest pieces) are KOKU, MUKAIJI, a=
nd
> REIBO. As you have mentioned, "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No Kyorei," and "Ko=
ku
> Reibo" are the KOTEN of the Kinko-Ryu. While sharing a cultural History,
> musically and compositionally the Kinko-Ryu pieces are quite different fr=
om
> the Fudaiji (Meian) pieces.
>=20
> The Fudaiji line pieces (which is the Jin Nyodo notation that I use as we=
ll) ,
> can be called "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" or "Fudai-ji: KYOREI", or just plain Ky=
orei.
> Along with Mukaji and Koku (also Fudaiji line), these pieces are not only=
much
> older than the previously listed Kinko-Ryu pieces, but they are VERY diff=
erent
> in every way.
>=20
> The Kinko-Ryu piece is usually referred to as Shin Kyorei (which means =B3n=
ew=B2
> Kyorei). The other two KOTEN pieces having the added =B3Reibo=B2 (memory of t=
he
> bell) is a reference , and in honor of- the bell that Fuke-Zenji would p=
lay.
>=20
> Kyotaku has been called the REAL oldest Honkyoku. Since it was lost over=
the
> ages, the attempt to recreate it is KYOREI (or false bell, or empty bell)=
.
>=20
> The above is not the last word on these matters, only what my teacher
> Kurahashi Yodo taught me.
>=20
> The two people who have the best Academic understanding of all of these t=
hings
> (in my opinion) are Riley Lee and Ralph Samuelson. But I hope that I have
> helped a bit !
>=20
> Take Care,
> Ronnie
>=20
> Will some kind expert please set me straight here:
> =20
> I am told "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" are referre=
d to
> as the three pieces of Bekkaku, or The Traditional Three, and are the mos=
t
> important of the Kinko Ryu Honkyoku.
> =20
> And I have read "Shin No Kyorei" is a Koten piece from the Kinko Ryu scho=
ol,
> also apparently sometimes known as "Kyotaku", from a story of that same n=
ame.
> And I also see it referred to as "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" and "Fudai-ji: KYOREI=
".
> The International Shakuhachi Society, I note, refers to the piece as "Shi=
n
> Kyorei", without the Japanese connecting word "no".
> =20
> And, finally, I am aware the Jin Nyodo #5 CD contains this masterful piec=
e,
> and I believe I have a copy of Jin Nyodo's notation here before me now.
> =20
> But here's my question: Every time I refer to the piece as "Shin No Kyor=
ei" I
> am abruptly corrected - without explanation - to "Kyorei."
> =20
> If what Jin Nyodo has recorded in his CD #5 is NOT "Shin No Kyorei", what
> happened to that piece? Where and when did it disappear? What is the mu=
sical
> difference between "Shin No Kyorei" and "Kyorei"? Why is it incorrect fo=
r me
> to refer to the piece as "Shin No Kyorei?"
> =20
> Thank you!
> =20
> Gene
>=20
>=20

--B_3152338879_71701

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Kyorei</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE> 
Hi Gene, 
 
To put it simply, these are different pieces. The SAN KOTEN  of the Me=
ian (or MYOAN) tradition, or three classical (oldest pieces) are KOKU, MUKAI=
JI, and REIBO. As you have mentioned,  "Mukaiji Reibo," &quot=
;Shin No Kyorei," and "Koku Reibo" are the KOTEN of the Kinko=
-Ryu. While sharing a cultural History, musically and compositionally the Ki=
nko-Ryu pieces are quite different from the Fudaiji (Meian) pieces. 
 
The Fudaiji line pieces (which is the Jin Nyodo notation that I use as well=
) , can be called  "Kyorei (Fudaiji)" or "Fudai-ji: KYOR=
EI", or just plain Kyorei. Along with Mukaji and Koku (also Fudaiji lin=
e), these pieces are not only much older than the previously listed Kinko-Ry=
u pieces, but they are VERY different in every way. 
 
The Kinko-Ryu piece is usually referred to as Shin Kyorei (which means &#82=
20;new” Kyorei). The other two KOTEN pieces having the added “Re=
ibo” (memory of the bell) is a reference , and in honor of-  the =
bell that Fuke-Zenji would play. 
 
Kyotaku  has been called the REAL oldest Honkyoku. Since it was lost o=
ver the ages, the attempt to recreate it is KYOREI (or false bell, or empty =
bell). 
 
The above is not the last word on these matters, only what my teacher Kurah=
ashi Yodo taught me. 
 
The two people who have the best Academic understanding of all of these thi=
ngs (in my opinion) are Riley Lee and Ralph Samuelson. But I hope that I hav=
e helped a bit ! 
 
Take Care, 
Ronnie 
 
Will some kind expert please set me straight here: 
  
I am told "Mukaiji Reibo," "Shin No Kyorei," and "=
Koku Reibo" are referred to as the three pieces of Bekkaku, or The Trad=
itional Three, and are the most important of the Kinko Ryu Honkyoku. 
  
And I have read "Shin No Kyorei" is a Koten piece from the Kinko =
Ryu school, also apparently sometimes known as "Kyotaku", from a s=
tory of that same name.  And I also see it referred to as "Kyorei =
(Fudaiji)" and "Fudai-ji: KYOREI". 
The International Shakuhachi Society, I note, refers to the piece as "=
Shin Kyorei", without the Japanese connecting word "no". 
  
And, finally, I am aware the Jin Nyodo #5 CD contains this masterful piece,=
and I believe I have a copy of Jin Nyodo's notation here before me now. 
  
But here's my question:  Every time I refer to the piece as "Shin=
No Kyorei" I am abruptly corrected - without explanation - to "Ky=
orei." 
  
If what Jin Nyodo has recorded in his CD #5 is NOT "Shin No Kyorei&quo=
t;, what happened to that piece?  Where and when did it disappear? &nbs=
p;What is the musical difference between "Shin No Kyorei" and &quo=
t;Kyorei"?  Why is it incorrect for me to refer to the piece as &q=
uot;Shin No Kyorei?" 
  
Thank you! 
  
Gene 
 
</BLOCKQUOTE> 

</BODY>
</HTML>

--B_3152338879_71701--

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