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Hey Brett...
I am sure this topic will open up a huge thread of viewpoints, and that's a good thing. It's been a little slow recently anyway.
I do agree that the primary approach to meditation should be on one's own terms, since it's benefits are intrinsicly unique to each one us. For me , I would say 70% of my 3-4 hour per day practice is spent reclined back in a chair, with my feet up, working on my embouchure for specific notes, grace notes, learning the notation, etc. I do, though, make a conscious effort to assure that the vertical positioning of the flute is in-line with how it will be in the sitting position, so the learning won't have to be shifted when sitting.
Since I have chosen to approach the Shakuhachi completely, the other 30% is spent in the traditional position and sitting upright. For my very novice abilities, I do notice a little difference in something when in the Seiza. It is probably subjectively perceived, but nonetheless, the body of tone and encompassing mood seem more pronounced. That is, until I have to wiggle blood back into my legs, thus your point.
I wonder if it is "tradition only", and not factual, when a specific alignment of the body helps to move things beyond our physical state, be it "chakras", or whatever (a bit out of my element here). If even for fleeting moments here and there during pratice, I think the traditional approach is worth exploring for every individual seeking a potential something that may be gradually disappearing in our modern, sometimes misdirected cultures. Meaning, maybe there is a very valid, non-cultural reason certain sitting positions were adopted. Honestly, I don't know, but yourself and many others undoubtedly have far more meditation and instrument experience than I do, and probably understand things much more clearly.
I do enjoy the pursuit and, so far, the lttle gifts along the path. I agree, if physical pain becomes an issue, change what you are doing and find another way. Let the instrument be the guide.
:)
Humbly,
dvc
--------------------------------------------------
Derek Choice
http://home.earthlink.net/~soundwave1
(New Shakuhachi Links Page 08/02)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Bud
To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 7:21 AM
Subject: RE: Seiza sitting position... ouch... "Hello, legs?"
I won't get into it in detail and will avoid a long rant, but I think it is
time to let go of the militaristic approach and sit in comfortable positions
that are not physically damaging or painful, and allow students to enjoy the
meditation practices...
If this means letting go of some traditional forms, my apologies to some of
the more insistent teachers, but over 30 years of practice and watching the
physical damage and negative impact on meditation practice to many students
has convinced me that this is necessary, at least in the West.
Meditation practice should not be about pain in the legs. We should practice
meditation because it feels good and improves the quality of our lives...
pain is a natural warning that something is wrong in our approach.
Brett "Bud" Breitwieser (brettb@rajah.com)
Zen Site: http://zenbud.com
Rajah Networking: http://rajah.net
Walking, Trike, Greens: http://rajah.ws
The Dragon: http://rajah.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Stevenson [mailto:dave.stevenson@durham.ac.uk]
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 3:48 AM
To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
Subject: Re: Seiza sitting position... ouch... "Hello, legs?"
Derek Choice / Funk Logic wrote:
>
> snip
>
> Does the proper positioning of a pillow, or any other technique, seem
> to allow progress and a conditioning for this position? Or, do a lot
> of players eventually migrate to a chair for most practice sessions?
> Alternatives?
>
a cushion(zafu) helps or you can easily make (or buy) a seiza bench.
http://www.zenmtnemp.com/sitting_benches.htm
but in the end its just a matter of getting used to it. Knee walking
(suwari waza?) helps but
this may be just because sitting seiza is a relief after doing knee
walking!
____________________________________________________
<a
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey Brett...<BR><BR>I am sure this topic will open
up a huge thread of viewpoints, and that's a good thing. It's been a little
slow recently anyway.<BR><BR>I do agree that the primary approach to meditation
should be on one's own terms, since it's benefits are intrinsicly unique to each
one us. For me , I would say 70% of my 3-4 hour per day practice is spent
reclined back in a chair, with my feet up, working on my embouchure for specific
notes, grace notes, learning the notation, etc. I do, though, make a
conscious effort to assure that the vertical positioning of the flute is in-line
with how it will be in the sitting position, so the learning won't have to be
shifted when sitting.<BR><BR>Since I have chosen to approach the Shakuhachi
completely, the other 30% is spent in the traditional position and sitting
upright. For my very novice abilities, I do notice a little difference in
<EM>something </EM>when in the Seiza. It is probably subjectively perceived, but
nonetheless, the body of tone and encompassing mood seem more
pronounced. That is, until I have to wiggle blood back into my legs, thus
your point.<BR><BR>I wonder if it is "tradition only", and not factual, when a
specific alignment of the body helps to move things beyond our physical state,
be it "chakras", or whatever (a bit out of my element here). If even for
fleeting moments here and there during pratice, I think the traditional approach
is worth exploring for every individual seeking a potential something that may
be gradually disappearing in our modern, sometimes misdirected cultures.
Meaning, maybe there is a very valid, non-cultural reason certain sitting
positions were adopted. Honestly, I don't know, but yourself and many
others undoubtedly have far more meditation and instrument experience than I do,
and probably understand things much more clearly.<BR><BR>I do enjoy the pursuit
and, so far, the lttle gifts along the path. I agree, if physical pain
becomes an issue, change what you are doing and find another way. Let the
instrument be the
guide.<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>Humbly,<BR><BR>dvc<BR><BR></FONT>--------------------------------------------------<BR>Derek
Choice<BR><A
href="http://home.earthlink.net/~soundwave1">http://home.earthlink.net/~soundwave1><BR>(New
Shakuhachi Links Page
08/02)<BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:bud@rajah.com" title=bud@rajah.com>Bud</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu"
title=Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu>Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 12, 2002 7:21
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Seiza sitting position...
ouch... "Hello, legs?"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I won't get into it in detail and will avoid a long rant, but I
think it is<BR>time to let go of the militaristic approach and sit in
comfortable positions<BR>that are not physically damaging or painful, and
allow students to enjoy the<BR>meditation practices...<BR><BR>If this means
letting go of some traditional forms, my apologies to some of<BR>the more
insistent teachers, but over 30 years of practice and watching the<BR>physical
damage and negative impact on meditation practice to many students<BR>has
convinced me that this is necessary, at least in the West.<BR><BR>Meditation
practice should not be about pain in the legs. We should
practice<BR>meditation because it feels good and improves the quality of our
lives...<BR>pain is a natural warning that something is wrong in our
approach.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Brett "Bud" Breitwieser (<A
href="mailto:brettb@rajah.com">brettb@rajah.com</A>)<BR>Zen Site: <A
href="http://zenbud.com">http://zenbud.com><BR>Rajah Networking: <A
href="http://rajah.net">http://rajah.net><BR>Walking, Trike, Greens: <A
href="http://rajah.ws">http://rajah.ws><BR>The Dragon: <A
href="http://rajah.org">http://rajah.org><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Dave Stevenson [<A
href="mailto:dave.stevenson@durham.ac.uk">mailto:dave.stevenson@durham.ac.uk</A>]<BR>Sent:
Monday, August 12, 2002 3:48 AM<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu">Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu</A><BR>Subject:
Re: Seiza sitting position... ouch... "Hello, legs?"<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Derek
Choice / Funk Logic wrote:<BR><BR>><BR>> snip<BR>><BR>> Does the
proper positioning of a pillow, or any other technique, seem<BR>> to allow
progress and a conditioning for this position? Or, do a lot<BR>> of
players eventually migrate to a chair for most practice sessions?<BR>>
Alternatives?<BR>><BR><BR>a cushion(zafu) helps or you can easily make (or
buy) a seiza bench.<BR> <A
href="http://www.zenmtnemp.com/sitting_benches.htm">http://www.zenmtnemp.com/sitting_benches.htm><BR><BR>but
in the end its just a matter of getting used to it. Knee walking<BR>(suwari
waza?) helps but<BR>this may be just because sitting seiza is a relief after
doing
knee<BR>walking!<BR><BR>____________________________________________________<BR>By
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default, replies to this message will go to the whole list.<BR>Please check
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