>Riley,
I especially like what you say in the last two paragraphs below. I
know two shakuhachi players who aren't very musical. They mainly
play honkyoku and while fairly good players, I feel their lack of a
musical sense (pitch, timing, tone color, phrasing, spacing etc.) is
holding them back. They say "I'm not a musician. I'm just into the
zen of it". Yet, their teachers are great honkyoku players and are
fully rounded as musicians too. One informs, and improves the other.
I don't think, like you say, that it is wise to separate the musical
and the spiritual. Both require a state of listening. Both require
us to be in a trance of creativity and non-thinking. If we can
achieve this wonderful state even for a few moments, what does it
matter if it's with a Shakuhachi or a Hocchiku?
Peter
>Nelson.
>
>You may well be seeing a circularity to the whole discussion. Mind
>you, any number of nutritionists would be very happy to enlighten
>you regarding rice. There is a definitive way to distinguish the
>very real difference between white and brown rice.
>
>I also tend to agree with your statement that spirituality is a
>matter of personal perception and as such is totally subjective.
>
>But you are thrusting my argument in the wrong direction here. Yes,
>as you say, if someone says playing hochiku rather than shakuhachi
>makes them more spiritual who are you to argue. But if someone says
>that playing hochiku rather than shakuhachi makes them more
>spiritual THAN YOU, assuming that you play shakuhachi, then you
>might be more willing to disagree.
>
>Furthermore, you missed my real message.
>
>At the risk of sounding apodictic, my real message is this. Many of
>us folk who do play shakuhachi have muddled our personal perception
>of what is spiritual in our bamboo flute playing activities and what
>is music. One consequence of this is that the music aspect
>frequently suffers.
>
>I tend to think that the spiritual aspect may suffer too, but as you
>point out, what is my folly might be someone else's brown rice.
>
>Best regards, Riley
>
>
>Dr. Riley Lee
>PO Box 939
>Manly 1655 NSW Australia
>Tel: +61 (0)2 9976 6904
>Fax: +61 (0)2 9976 6905
>mobile: +61 (0)414 626 453
>www.rileylee.net
>
>>From: Nelson Zink <zink@newmex.com>
>>To: <Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Shakuhachi vs Hocchiku; Suizen vs Music
>>Message-ID: <BA5CC52B.1F1D%zink@newmex.com>
>>
>>Riley,
>>
>>>shakuhachi and hochiku
>>
>>There's a circularity to the whole discussion. Is there a definitive way to
>>distinguish between shakuhachi and hochiku? Or are we just taking about
>>white rice and brown rice?
>>
>>The distinctions I've heard aren't definitive and tend to emphasis methods
>>of construction rather than aural characteristics. Are we talking about
>>degree of refinement as it applies to instrument, sound, etc.?
>>
>>I understand your observation that making and wearing rice straw sandals may
>>not get one any closer to heaven. But spirituality is a matter of personal
>>perception and as such is totally subjective. One person's spirituality is
>>another's folly.
>>
>>So while I agree with the general thrust of your message, at a deeper level
>>I don't. If someone says playing hochiku rather than shakuhachi makes them
>>more spiritual who am I to argue. But I think your real message is about
>>elitism whether it be spiritual or otherwise. Yes, it's annoying. But the
>>reverse snobbery is endearing: I'm better than you because my flute is worse
>>than yours.
>>
>>And it shouldn't go unnoticed that Zen itself got it's start, in part, with
>>the rejection and repudiation of Chinese ornamentation. Maybe what we're
>>really taking about is the self-satisfaction asceticism can provide.
>>
>>Nelson
>
>____________________________________________________
>
-- Peter Ross http://www.cloudhandsmusic.com P.O. Box 55055 Seattle, WA 98155 206-587-7262 206-364-2341 FAX ____________________________________________________
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Jan 06 2004 - 14:09:32 PST