Re: on vibrato

From: Herb Rodriguez (Herb.Rodriguez@Colorado.edu)
Date: Thu Aug 21 2003 - 13:10:13 PDT

Next message: Nelson Zink: "Re: on vibrato"
Previous message: Tim Cassler: "Re: on vibrato"
In reply to: Tim Cassler: "Re: on vibrato"
Next in thread: Nelson Zink: "Re: on vibrato"
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

--=====================_193364772==.ALT

Ok, I'll go back to smelling the roses amidst the slings and
arrows. Thanks, Herb

At 08/21/2003 02:18 PM, you wrote:
>I did not say that you were missing the forest.
>
>--
>
>Tim Cassler
>Toolbox Studios, Inc.
>454 Soledad, Suite 100
>San Antonio, TX 78205
>
>210.225.8269 x111
>fax.225.8200
>
>From: Herb Rodriguez <Herb.Rodriguez@Colorado.edu>
>Reply-To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:02:02 -0600
>To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
>Subject: Re: on vibrato
>
>
>Hi Tim,
>
>Please, help me to see how I'm missing the forest? Herb
>
>At 08/21/2003 01:52 PM, you wrote:
>if were not careful, well miss the forest for the trees.......
>
>--
>
>Tim Cassler
>Toolbox Studios, Inc.
>454 Soledad, Suite 100
>San Antonio, TX 78205
>
>210.225.8269 x111
>fax.225.8200
>
>From: Herb Rodriguez <Herb.Rodriguez@Colorado.edu>
>Reply-To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:29:36 -0600
>To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu
>Subject: Re: on vibrato
>
>
>At 08/20/2003 10:45 AM, you wrote:
> > "Do not seek to follow the footsteps of the masters. Seek what they
> sought."
>
>Great quote, Herb! Now, how does that translate into particulars, in our
>yuri discussion, for example? That's always the hard part, isn't it?
>
>Peter
>
>To yuri, or not to yuri, that is the question:
>Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
>The slings and arrows of outrageous censure ;
>Or to take bamboo against a sea of troubles,
>And by satori, end them:
>
>Peter,
>
>As always, everyone will come to their own understanding/interpretation of
>a quote like this. Nelson gave his understanding of it and arrived at a
>conclusion I never would have thought of.
>
>The way I understood it was a little more mundane.
>
>1- Are you deciding to do yuri or not do yuri simply because your teacher
>told you so and you are an unquestioning obedient student?
>
>2- Are you a historian or archivist who wants to preserve how to play the
>piece *exactly* the was you were taught by your teacher, the way it was
>passed on to him or her and therefore you want to pass it on exactly that
>same way as well?
>
>3- Do you want to use the teacher's suggestions as a guide to get you
>started, perfecting it yes, but as you practice you seek your own
>understanding of the *essence* of the piece? Do you want to find a deeper
>understanding, going deeper and deeper until the essence of the pieces
>expresses itself through you to the point where you understand from deep
>within when yuri (or any technique) is appropriate to use or not to use to
>express this essence? Do you want to go deep enough that you can express
>the essence of the piece in such a way that it will come out whether or
>not you use yuri, either way will still express the essence, albeit with
>different shadings?
>
>There is nothing wrong with the first two examples I give. They each have
>their own level of importance. They each have their own level of ease and
>difficulty.
>
>The third way is simply different, sometimes harder, maybe more lonely,
>more challenging, more boring. Maybe requiring more courage in the fact
>that you are exploring "the undiscovered country", or maybe going against
>the grain of the "historians". Yet, isn't that what we look for in our
>brilliant musicians and spiritual teachers, ie, their unique expression of
>the *universal* from their own deep exploration that touches and resonates
>with us and reminds us of our connection with the universal? Isn't that
>what we admire and try to emulate? Isn't that why we play shakuhachi (or
>any music) or meditate:
>"to seek what they sought" ; to find our connection with the universal or
>the divine?
>
>---------
>If I may make a brief comment on what Nelson wrote:
>
>"But let me introduce a little different slant. Maybe what the master
>sought is of little interest to me, maybe it's beyond my particular
>capabilities, and why should I pattern my life on the master's needs
>anyway? So maybe I should seek not what the master sought but, instead,
>what I need. I can emulate the master's perseverance and dedication
>without using the master's particular goals. I don't have much idea what
>the master sought (why should I care?) but I have some sense of what I'm
>after."
>--------------
>Nelson,
>
>There is a school of thought that says ultimately, we all have the same
>needs, eg returning to our connection to the "divine", or "universal
>experience", or "the experience of Universal unconditional Love", however
>you want to define it. On the surface, needs may seem different. But if
>you go deep enough, really deep, and ignore "labels", what the master
>"needs" and sought is essentially the same as what you think you "need"
>and seek. "A rose by any other name..."
>
>So yes, "...emulate the master's perseverance and dedication..." for your
>own goals. Maybe you'll discover you reached the same place?
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Herb
>
>

--=====================_193364772==.ALT

<html>
<body>
Ok, I'll go back to smelling the roses amidst the slings and
arrows.  Thanks, Herb 
At 08/21/2003 02:18 PM, you wrote: 
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I
did not say that you were missing the forest. 
-- 
Tim Cassler 
Toolbox Studios, Inc. 
454 Soledad, Suite 100 
San Antonio, TX 78205 
210.225.8269 x111 
fax.225.8200 

<dl>

<dd>From: Herb Rodriguez <Herb.Rodriguez@Colorado.edu>

<dd>Reply-To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu

<dd>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:02:02 -0600

<dd>To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu

<dd>Subject: Re: on vibrato

</dl>

<dl>
<dd>Hi Tim,

<dd>Please, help me to see how I'm missing the forest? Herb

<dd>At 08/21/2003 01:52 PM, you wrote:

<dd>if were not careful, well miss the forest for the
trees.......

<dd>--

<dd>Tim Cassler

<dd>Toolbox Studios, Inc.

<dd>454 Soledad, Suite 100

<dd>San Antonio, TX 78205

<dd>210.225.8269 x111

<dd>fax.225.8200

</dl>From: Herb Rodriguez <Herb.Rodriguez@Colorado.edu> 
Reply-To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu 
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:29:36 -0600 
To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu 
Subject: Re: on vibrato 
 
At 08/20/2003 10:45 AM, you wrote: 
> "Do not seek to follow the footsteps of the masters. Seek what
they sought." 
Great quote, Herb! Now, how does that translate into particulars, in our
yuri discussion, for example? That's always the hard part, isn't
it? 
Peter 
To yuri, or not to yuri, that is the question: 
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer 
The slings and arrows of outrageous censure ; 
Or to take bamboo against a sea of troubles, 
And by satori, end them: 
Peter, 
As always, everyone will come to their own understanding/interpretation
of a quote like this. Nelson gave his understanding of it and arrived at
a conclusion I never would have thought of. 
The way I understood it was a little more mundane. 
1- Are you deciding to do yuri or not do yuri simply because your teacher
told you so and you are an unquestioning obedient student? 
2- Are you a historian or archivist who wants to preserve how to play the
piece *exactly* the was you were taught by your teacher, the way it was
passed on to him or her and therefore you want to pass it on exactly that
same way as well? 
3- Do you want to use the teacher's suggestions as a guide to get you
started, perfecting it yes, but as you practice you seek your own
understanding of the *essence* of the piece? Do you want to find a deeper
understanding, going deeper and deeper until the essence of the pieces
expresses itself through you to the point where you understand from deep
within when yuri (or any technique) is appropriate to use or not to use
to express this essence? Do you want to go deep enough that you can
express the essence of the piece in such a way that it will come out
whether or not you use yuri, either way will still express the essence,
albeit with different shadings? 
There is nothing wrong with the first two examples I give. They each have
their own level of importance. They each have their own level of ease and
difficulty. 
The third way is simply different, sometimes harder, maybe more lonely,
more challenging, more boring. Maybe requiring more courage in the fact
that you are exploring "the undiscovered country", or maybe
going against the grain of the "historians". Yet, isn't that
what we look for in our brilliant musicians and spiritual teachers, ie,
their unique expression of the *universal* from their own deep
exploration that touches and resonates with us and reminds us of our
connection with the universal? Isn't that what we admire and try to
emulate? Isn't that why we play shakuhachi (or any music) or meditate:
 
"to seek what they sought" ; to find our connection with the
universal or the divine? 
 
--------- 
If I may make a brief comment on what Nelson wrote: 
"But let me introduce a little different slant. Maybe what the
master sought is of little interest to me, maybe it's beyond my
particular capabilities, and why should I pattern my life on the master's
needs anyway? So maybe I should seek not what the master sought but,
instead, what I need. I can emulate the master's perseverance and
dedication without using the master's particular goals. I don't have
much idea what the master sought (why should I care?) but I have some
sense of what I'm after." 
-------------- 
Nelson, 
There is a school of thought that says ultimately, we all have the same
needs, eg returning to our connection to the "divine", or
"universal experience", or "the experience of Universal
unconditional Love", however you want to define it. On the surface,
needs may seem different. But if you go deep enough, really deep, and
ignore "labels", what the master "needs" and sought
is essentially the same as what you think you "need" and seek.
"A rose by any other name..." 
So yes, "...emulate the master's perseverance and
dedication..." for your own goals. Maybe you'll discover you reached
the same place? 
Just a thought. 
Herb 
 
</blockquote></body>
</html>

--=====================_193364772==.ALT--

Next message: Nelson Zink: "Re: on vibrato"
Previous message: Tim Cassler: "Re: on vibrato"
In reply to: Tim Cassler: "Re: on vibrato"
Next in thread: Nelson Zink: "Re: on vibrato"
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Jan 06 2004 - 14:09:34 PST