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Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI FESTIVALCrude and rude? That's a very sad way to =
deal with people who have a different opinion to you. Just because i =
won't recognise stupid accolades like "living national treasure", does =
not make me crude and rude. If you want to put people on pedestals that =
is your choice, my choice is that i do not. That is not crude or rude.
And whatever happened to respecting students?
Why's it all about the teacher these days?
And if, as Riley says, teachers at festivals are getting less than $5 an =
hour for the workshops, and if, as some other's claim festival =
organisers are struggling to pay for the festivals, then where's all the =
money going? I see a big hole in the finances here. Something is not =
adding up on my calculator.
I'm all for a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. And my main issue =
throughout has not been about teachers getting paid fairly, but that =
unecessary and unexplained expenses are being added as obstacles in the =
way of many potential students.
When i first heard shakuhachi i fell in love with the sound. But when i =
looked and saw what a reasonable one cost i soon lost hope of ever =
playing it.
It wasn't until i happened upon Perry Yung, making good quality entry =
level shakuhachi and selling them cheaply on eBay that i actually got a =
chance to play this instrument. And i sincerely thank and praise Perry =
for making the effort to make his instruments available to beginners and =
people who do not have much money. And do sincerely hope that he =
continues to do so alongside making high end shakuhachi.
Perry has also offered that after a year with this instrument, i can =
send it back to him and he will give me the purchase price off the cost =
of a better model. This again is a wonderful example of someone making =
the effort to make this instrument more accessable to people. As a =
beginner i could not justify spending hundreds if not thousands on a =
flute, but as i learn on a basic model i can save my pennies and pounds =
and as my playing improves i am aware that the maker of my flute is =
willing to help me as and when i am able to afford and justify a better =
flute.
What started this debate was my issue that having to pay $60 a night to =
park my tent on some grass was a rip off. It is a rip off! This has =
nothing to do with teachers and students, it has to do with someone =
milking the cash cow. As a beginner all i could afford to buy was a =
flute from Perry for $200, yet i'm expected to pay $240 to camp for four =
nights at a shakuhachi festival.
If i commute in with my own food i'm expected to pay $27 a day to use =
the toilet. If people cannot see what is wrong with that then there =
really isn't any hope for the future.
I also help organise festivals in the UK. I do not receive any money =
for doing so, i do it because i love the vibe and enjoy the music. The =
most expensive of the four festivals i'm involved with is =A340 for the =
whole weekend and includes three long evenings of great performances by =
some of the world's best didgeridoo players. Camping is free. Bring =
your own food or buy what you wish to eat and drink there from stalls. =
A lot of people get together on the camp site and create great little =
communities and cook and share with each other - a wonderful vibe.
Workshops happen throughout each day and are charged according to those =
who are giving them, and selected and taken by those who wish to.
By keeping it like this we are able to take an virtually unheard of =
instrument a few years ago and share as much as possible with as many as =
possible. It is only by doing this that the root culture of this =
instrument is being supported and reinforced and hopefully will be kept =
alive for future generations.
I therefore cannot see any reason why a shakuhachi festival should be so =
expensive. Or what organisers hope to achieve by making them so =
expensive. If you want this knowledge and culture to survive for future =
generations then make it more accessible.
All the best.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Robert McNeil=20
To: Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu=20
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI FESTIVAL
Thanks Riley,
Very well said. Personally I am very tired of folks whining about how =
much teachers cost, instruments cost, workshops cost etc. And I have =
found a lot of this thread to be crude and rude. Whatever happened to =
respecting our teachers, honoring their attention to the art and the =
sacrifices they have had to make. Pulling a festival together is an =
enormous task. Worrying about how I can attend the event without paying =
a fair share seems so selfish. There has been a lot of attention paid =
recently to repairing cracked flutes. Perhaps we should start a thread =
focusing on repairing cracked players.=20
Rob McNeil
Philadelphia
On 3/11/05 6:30 AM, "Riley Lee" <riley@rileylee.net> wrote:
Hello all.=20
Just for the record, the first class/business class tickets are for =
our teacher's generation. The cost of these tickets would be mere tokens =
of my gratitude for what they have given me, and I am sure that I speak =
for Ronnie. I couldn't pay back my teachers for what they have given me =
even if I were wealthier than Bill Gates. Really and truly, I could =
never repay my teachers.=20
The teachers who will be at the Hawaii Festival next week will earn =
less than $5/hr. This doesn't cover the time/effort/money they spent =
learning what they will teach to others. If one factors all of that in, =
then one can say that they are, in fact, giving away their treasures. =20
The fee that I will be paid this year for the Rockies Camp might =
just cover my airfare (economy class). It will take me about 16 hours of =
actual, in-the-air flying time to get there, so I suppose I'm getting a =
good deal on the airfare. It has been suggested (not on this list) that =
I really shouldn't be doing this sort of travelling because of the =
contribution my travels make to global warming. This bothers me. I've =
yet to sort this out in my mind.=20
Even if I were to travel first/business class and paid a fee on top =
of that, that travel allowance and fee would be paying me to teach =
concrete skills and concrete knowledge. Yes, one doesn't need those =
skills and that knowledge to enjoy blowing into bamboo flutes and to =
meditate while doing so. =20
Suffice it to say that I have experienced blowing into bamboo flutes =
without those skills and blowing into them with those skills. I'd choose =
having the skills any day. People who haven't had both experiences can't =
comment on this one way or the other.=20
The people who attend the Rockies Camp pay for the skills, as they =
might for classes on plumbing, or dancing. The enlightenment that they =
might achieve while mastering those skills is given freely and =
graciously.=20
Best regards, =20
Riley Lee=20
Sound of Bamboo=20
PO Box 939, Manly NSW 1655, Australia=20
tel. +612 9976 6904 fax +612 9976 6905=20
mobile +612 414 626 453=20
www.rileylee.net=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C52648.532917F0
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI FESTIVAL</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#e0e0e0>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>Crude and rude? =
That's a very=20
sad way to deal with people who have a different opinion to you. =
Just=20
because i won't recognise stupid accolades like "living national =
treasure", does=20
not make me crude and rude. If you want to put people on pedestals =
that is=20
your choice, my choice is that i do not. That is not crude or=20
rude.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>And whatever happened to =
respecting=20
students?</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>Why's it all about the =
teacher these=20
days?</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>And if, as Riley says, =
teachers at=20
festivals are getting less than $5 an hour for the workshops, and if, as =
some=20
other's claim festival organisers are struggling to pay for the=20
festivals, then where's all the money going? I see a big =
hole in=20
the finances here. Something is not adding up on my=20
calculator.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>I'm all for a fair day's =
pay for a=20
fair day's work. And my main issue throughout has not been=20
about teachers getting paid fairly, but that unecessary=20
and unexplained expenses are being added as obstacles in the =
way of=20
many potential students.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>When i first heard =
shakuhachi i fell=20
in love with the sound. But when i looked and saw what a =
reasonable one=20
cost i soon lost hope of ever playing it.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>It wasn't until i =
happened upon Perry=20
Yung, making good quality entry level shakuhachi and selling them =
cheaply on=20
eBay that i actually got a chance to play this instrument. And i =
sincerely=20
thank and praise Perry for making the effort to make his instruments =
available=20
to beginners and people who do not have much money. And do =
sincerely hope=20
that he continues to do so alongside making high end=20
shakuhachi.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>Perry has also offered =
that after a=20
year with this instrument, i can send it back to him and he will give me =
the=20
purchase price off the cost of a better model. This again is a =
wonderful=20
example of someone making the effort to make this instrument more =
accessable to=20
people. As a beginner i could not justify spending hundreds if not =
thousands on a flute, but as i learn on a basic model i can save my =
pennies and=20
pounds and as my playing improves i am aware that the maker of my flute =
is=20
willing to help me as and when i am able to afford and justify a better=20
flute.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>What started this debate =
was my issue=20
that having to pay $60 a night to park my tent on some grass was a rip=20
off. It is a rip off! This has nothing to do with teachers =
and=20
students, it has to do with someone milking the cash cow. As a =
beginner=20
all i could afford to buy was a flute from Perry for $200, yet i'm =
expected=20
to pay $240 to camp for four nights at a shakuhachi =
festival.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>If i commute in with my =
own food i'm=20
expected to pay $27 a day to use the toilet. If people cannot =
see=20
what is wrong with that then there really isn't any hope for the=20
future.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>I also help organise =
festivals=20
in the UK. I do not receive any money for doing so, i do it =
because i love=20
the vibe and enjoy the music. The most expensive of the four =
festivals i'm=20
involved with is =A340 for the whole weekend and includes three long =
evenings of=20
great performances by some of the world's best didgeridoo players. =
Camping=20
is free. Bring your own food or buy what you wish to eat and=20
drink there from stalls. A lot of people get together on the =
camp=20
site and create great little communities and cook and share =
with each=20
other - a wonderful vibe.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>Workshops happen =
throughout each=20
day and are charged according to those who are giving them, and =
selected=20
and taken by those who wish to.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>By keeping it like this =
we are able=20
to take an virtually unheard of instrument a few years ago and =
share as=20
much as possible with as many as possible. It is only by doing =
this that=20
the root culture of this instrument is being supported and reinforced =
and=20
hopefully will be kept alive for future generations.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>I therefore cannot =
see any=20
reason why a shakuhachi festival should be so expensive. Or what=20
organisers hope to achieve by making them so expensive. If you =
want this=20
knowledge and culture to survive for future generations then make it =
more=20
accessible.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D4>All the =
best.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Drobertmcneil@mac.com =
href=3D"mailto:robertmcneil@mac.com">Robert=20
McNeil</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3DShakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Shakuhachi@communication.ucsd.edu">Shakuhachi@communicatio=
n.ucsd.edu</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 11, 2005 =
1:06=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI =
FESTIVAL</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">Thanks Riley,<BR><BR>Very well said. =
Personally I am=20
very tired of folks whining about how much teachers cost, instruments =
cost,=20
workshops cost etc. And I have found a lot of this thread to be crude =
and=20
rude. Whatever happened to respecting our teachers, honoring their =
attention=20
to the art and the sacrifices they have had to make. Pulling a =
festival=20
together is an enormous task. Worrying about how I can attend the =
event=20
without paying a fair share seems so selfish. There has been a lot of=20
attention paid recently to repairing cracked flutes. Perhaps we should =
start a=20
thread focusing on repairing cracked players. <BR><BR>Rob=20
McNeil<BR>Philadelphia<BR><BR><BR>On 3/11/05 6:30 AM, "Riley Lee"=20
<riley@rileylee.net> wrote:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">Hello all. <BR><BR>Just for the record, =
the first=20
class/business class tickets are for our teacher's generation. The =
cost of=20
these tickets would be mere tokens of my gratitude for what they =
have given=20
me, and I am sure that I speak for Ronnie. I couldn't pay back my =
teachers=20
for what they have given me even if I were wealthier than Bill =
Gates. Really=20
and truly, I could never repay my teachers. <BR><BR>The teachers who =
will be=20
at the Hawaii Festival next week will earn less than $5/hr. This =
doesn't=20
cover the time/effort/money they spent learning what they will teach =
to=20
others. If one factors all of that in, then one can say that they =
are, in=20
fact, giving away their treasures. <BR><BR>The fee that I will =
be paid=20
this year for the Rockies Camp might just cover my airfare (economy =
class).=20
It will take me about 16 hours of actual, in-the-air flying time to =
get=20
there, so I suppose I'm getting a good deal on the airfare. It has =
been=20
suggested (not on this list) that I really shouldn't be doing this =
sort of=20
travelling because of the contribution my travels make to global =
warming.=20
This bothers me. I've yet to sort this out in my mind. <BR><BR>Even =
if I=20
were to travel first/business class and paid a fee on top of that, =
that=20
travel allowance and fee would be paying me to teach concrete skills =
and=20
concrete knowledge. Yes, one doesn't need those skills and that =
knowledge to=20
enjoy blowing into bamboo flutes and to meditate while doing so.=20
<BR><BR>Suffice it to say that I have experienced blowing into =
bamboo=20
flutes without those skills and blowing into them with those skills. =
I'd=20
choose having the skills any day. People who haven't had both =
experiences=20
can't comment on this one way or the other. <BR><BR>The people who =
attend=20
the Rockies Camp pay for the skills, as they might for classes on =
plumbing,=20
or dancing. The enlightenment that they might achieve while =
mastering those=20
skills is given freely and graciously. <BR><BR>Best regards, =
<BR>Riley=20
Lee <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Baskerville, Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B><I><BR>Sound of Bamboo <BR>PO Box 939, =
Manly NSW=20
1655, Australia <BR>tel. +612 9976 6904 fax +612 9976 6905 =
<BR>mobile=20
+612 414 626 453 =
<BR>www.rileylee.net</I></B></SPAN></FONT></FONT><I><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial Narrow"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px">=20
<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></I><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, =
Arial"><BR></FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12px"><FONT=20
face=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR></FONT></SPAN>
<P>
<HR>
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