Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI FESTIVAL

From: Robert McNeil (robertmcneil@mac.com)
Date: Fri Mar 11 2005 - 08:53:30 PST

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--B_3193386827_1445572
charset="ISO-8859-1"

=20
Hi Stan,=20

On 3/11/05 9:40 AM, "stan" <b@didgethings.co.uk> wrote:

> Crude and rude? That's a very sad way to deal with people who have a
> different opinion to you. Just because i won't recognise stupid accolade=
s
> like "living national treasure", does not make me crude and rude. If you=
want
> to put people on pedestals that is your choice, my choice is that i do no=
t.
> That is not crude or rude.
> No you are right, I was referring to =B3New York blows,=B2 it=B9s just not an
> acceptable way to express oneself, in my opinion, and you didn=B9t say it
> either.
> Great players can have accolades can=B9t they? It gives all of us somewhere=
to
> go. I play golf and to me, Tiger is a national treasure. I also bicycle, =
and
> to me, Lance Armstrong is another national treasure.
> I think some people do things better than others. I respect them for thei=
r
> efforts, and try to learn from them. Having a teacher means I can learn f=
aster
> and do not make as many mistakes. It=B9s just a learning model I tend to fa=
vor.
>=20
> =20
> And whatever happened to respecting students?
> All my teachers respect me.
> =20
> Why's it all about the teacher these days?
> Well, it=B9s a very good way to become classically trained
> =20
> And if, as Riley says, teachers at festivals are getting less than $5 an =
hour
> for the workshops, and if, as some other's claim festival organisers are
> struggling to pay for the festivals, then where's all the money going? I=
see
> a big hole in the finances here. Something is not adding up on my calcul=
ator.
> Obviously, you have never run a festival. What=B9s rude is the accusation a=
nd
> the implication that the organizers are making huge profits. You judge wi=
thout
> experience.=20
> =20
> I'm all for a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. And my main issue
> throughout has not been about teachers getting paid fairly, but that
> unecessary and unexplained expenses are being added as obstacles in the w=
ay of
> many potential students.
> Obviously you have never traveled from Asia in coach and then tried to wo=
rk
> the next day.
> =20
> When i first heard shakuhachi i fell in love with the sound. But when i
> looked and saw what a reasonable one cost i soon lost hope of ever playin=
g it.
> I felt the same way about my first wife.
> =20
> It wasn't until i happened upon Perry Yung, making good quality entry lev=
el
> shakuhachi and selling them cheaply on eBay that i actually got a chance =
to
> play this instrument. And i sincerely thank and praise Perry for making =
the
> effort to make his instruments available to beginners and people who do n=
ot
> have much money. And do sincerely hope that he continues to do so alongs=
ide
> making high end shakuhachi.
> Perry is way cool.
> =20
> Perry has also offered that after a year with this instrument, i can send=
it
> back to him and he will give me the purchase price off the cost of a bett=
er
> model. This again is a wonderful example of someone making the effort to=
make
> this instrument more accessable to people. As a beginner i could not jus=
tify
> spending hundreds if not thousands on a flute, but as i learn on a basic =
model
> i can save my pennies and pounds and as my playing improves i am aware th=
at
> the maker of my flute is willing to help me as and when i am able to affo=
rd
> and justify a better flute.
> Not everyone has the same business model. If you buy an expensive flute t=
he
> value does not necessarily go down if you take care of it. It can be a ve=
ry
> good investment.=20
> =20
> What started this debate was my issue that having to pay $60 a night to p=
ark
> my tent on some grass was a rip off. It is a rip off! This has nothing =
to do
> with teachers and students, it has to do with someone milking the cash co=
w.
> As a beginner all i could afford to buy was a flute from Perry for $200, =
yet
> i'm expected to pay $240 to camp for four nights at a shakuhachi festival=
.
> Ya pays ya money and ya makes ya choice. It=B9s about a value proposition. =
If
> you don=B9t feel it=B9s worth it, you don=B9t have to attend. However, lots do =
and
> believe the price is fair.
> =20
> If i commute in with my own food i'm expected to pay $27 a day to use the
> toilet. If people cannot see what is wrong with that then there really i=
sn't
> any hope for the future.
> Actually, I don=B9t think the organizers care where you relieve yourself. B=
ut
> you do have to pay your fair share for organizing the event. I think no h=
ope
> for the world is a stretch, don=B9t you agree?
> =20
> I also help organise festivals in the UK. I do not receive any money for
> doing so, i do it because i love the vibe and enjoy the music. The most
> expensive of the four festivals i'm involved with is =A340 for the whole we=
ekend
> and includes three long evenings of great performances by some of the wor=
ld's
> best didgeridoo players. Camping is free. Bring your own food or buy wh=
at
> you wish to eat and drink there from stalls. A lot of people get togethe=
r on
> the camp site and create great little communities and cook and share with=
each
> other - a wonderful vibe.
> =20
> Workshops happen throughout each day and are charged according to those w=
ho
> are giving them, and selected and taken by those who wish to.
> =20
> By keeping it like this we are able to take an virtually unheard of instr=
ument
> a few years ago and share as much as possible with as many as possible. =
It is
> only by doing this that the root culture of this instrument is being supp=
orted
> and reinforced and hopefully will be kept alive for future generations.
> It=B9s a different model. Offer it to the shakuhachi tribe. Organize a fest=
ival,
> get some cool teachers to attend, and charge what you want. I=B9d love to c=
ome.
> As Yogi said, (another =B3national treasure=B2 ) =B3If you can=B9t imitate him, d=
on=B9t
> copy him.=B2
> =20
> I therefore cannot see any reason why a shakuhachi festival should be so
> expensive. Or what organisers hope to achieve by making them so expensiv=
e.
> If you want this knowledge and culture to survive for future generations =
then
> make it more accessible.
> I will wait for your invitation.
> =20
> All the best.=20
> And the same to you.
>=20
> Rob McNeil
>> =20

--B_3193386827_1445572
charset="ISO-8859-1"

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [Shaku] SHAKUHACHI FESTIVAL</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
 
Hi Stan, 
 
On 3/11/05 9:40 AM, "stan" <b@didgethings.co.uk> wrote: 
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>Crude and rude?  =
That's a very sad way to deal with people who have a different opinion to yo=
u.  Just because i won't recognise stupid accolades like "living n=
ational treasure", does not make me crude and rude.  If you want t=
o put people on pedestals that is your choice, my choice is that i do not. &=
nbsp;That is not crude or rude. 
No you are right, I was referring to “New York =
blows,” it’s just not an acceptable way to express oneself, in m=
y opinion, and you didn’t say it either. 
Great players can have accolades can’t they? It gives all of us somew=
here to go. I play golf and to me, Tiger is a national treasure. I also bicy=
cle, and to me, Lance Armstrong is another national treasure. 
I think some people do things better than others. I respect them for their =
efforts, and try to learn from them. Having a teacher means I can learn fast=
er and do not make as many mistakes. It’s just a learning model I tend=
to favor. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
  
And whatever happened to respectin=
g students? 
All my teachers respect me. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
Why's it all about the teacher the=
se days? 
Well, it’s a very good way to become classicall=
y trained 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
And if, as Riley says, teachers at=
festivals are getting less than $5 an hour for the workshops, and if, as so=
me other's claim festival organisers are struggling to pay for the festivals=
, then where's all the money going?  I see a big hole in the finances h=
ere.  Something is not adding up on my calculator. 
Obviously, you have never run a festival. What’=
s rude is the accusation and the implication that the organizers are making =
huge profits. You judge without experience. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
I'm all for a fair day's pay for a=
fair day's work.  And my main issue throughout has not been about teac=
hers getting paid fairly, but that unecessary and unexplained expenses are b=
eing added as obstacles in the way of many potential students. 
Obviously you have never traveled from Asia in coach =
and then tried to work the next day. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
When i first heard shakuhachi i fe=
ll in love with the sound.  But when i looked and saw what a reasonable=
one cost i soon lost hope of ever playing it. 
I felt the same way about my first wife. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
It wasn't until i happened upon Pe=
rry Yung, making good quality entry level shakuhachi and selling them cheapl=
y on eBay that i actually got a chance to play this instrument.  And i =
sincerely thank and praise Perry for making the effort to make his instrumen=
ts available to beginners and people who do not have much money.  And d=
o sincerely hope that he continues to do so alongside making high end shakuh=
achi. 
Perry is way cool. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
Perry has also offered that after =
a year with this instrument, i can send it back to him and he will give me t=
he purchase price off the cost of a better model.  This again is a wond=
erful example of someone making the effort to make this instrument more acce=
ssable to people.  As a beginner i could not justify spending hundreds =
if not thousands on a flute, but as i learn on a basic model i can save my p=
ennies and pounds and as my playing improves i am aware that the maker of my=
flute is willing to help me as and when i am able to afford and justify a b=
etter flute. 
Not everyone has the same business model. If you buy =
an expensive flute the value does not necessarily go down if you take care o=
f it. It can be a very good investment. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
What started this debate was my is=
sue that having to pay $60 a night to park my tent on some grass was a rip o=
ff.  It is a rip off!  This has nothing to do with teachers and st=
udents, it has to do with someone milking the cash cow.  As a beginner =
all i could afford to buy was a flute from Perry for $200, yet i'm expected =
to pay $240 to camp for four nights at a shakuhachi festival. 
Ya pays ya money and ya makes ya choice. It’s a=
bout a value proposition. If you don’t feel it’s worth it, you d=
on’t have to attend. However, lots do and believe the price is fair. <=
BR>
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
If i commute in with my own food i=
'm expected to pay $27 a day to use the toilet.  If people cannot see w=
hat is wrong with that then there really isn't any hope for the future. 
Actually, I don’t think the organizers care whe=
re you relieve yourself. But you do have to pay your fair share for organizi=
ng the event. I think no hope for the world is a stretch, don’t you ag=
ree? 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
I also help organise festivals in =
the UK.  I do not receive any money for doing so, i do it because i lov=
e the vibe and enjoy the music.  The most expensive of the four festiva=
ls i'm involved with is £40 for the whole weekend and includes three l=
ong evenings of great performances by some of the world's best didgeridoo pl=
ayers.  Camping is free.  Bring your own food or buy what you wish=
to eat and drink there from stalls.  A lot of people get together on t=
he camp site and create great little communities and cook and share with eac=
h other - a wonderful vibe. 
 
Workshops happen throughout each d=
ay and are charged according to those who are giving them, and selected and =
taken by those who wish to. 
 
By keeping it like this we are abl=
e to take an virtually unheard of instrument a few years ago and share as mu=
ch as possible with as many as possible.  It is only by doing this that=
the root culture of this instrument is being supported and reinforced and h=
opefully will be kept alive for future generations. 
It’s a different model. Offer it to the shakuha=
chi tribe. Organize a festival, get some cool teachers to attend, and charge=
what you want. I’d love to come. As Yogi said, (another “nation=
al treasure” ) “If you can’t imitate him, don’t copy=
him.” 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
I therefore cannot see any reason =
why a shakuhachi festival should be so expensive.  Or what organisers h=
ope to achieve by making them so expensive.  If you want this knowledge=
and culture to survive for future generations then make it more accessible.=
 
I will wait for your invitation. 
<SPA=
N STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'> 
All the best. 
And the same to you. 
 
Rob McNeil 
<BLOCKQUOTE> 
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>

--B_3193386827_1445572--

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